I'm trying to gauge interest among San Francisco Bay Area operators (ISPs and knowledgeable corporate customers) with respect to starting a mailing list or forum dedicated to the notification of LEC operational issues specific to the Bay Area. I'm willing to run a list with a strict AUP. Such a list would allow customers of PacBell, ICG, TCG, Brooks, MFS, etc. to communicate outages such as the current DS0 shredding between Brooks and PacBell at SJ SpacePark. I'm interested in an emphasis on the tandems and PRI (dialup) related problems, but I'm sure there would be ample room for notifications regarding fiber cuts, DACS failures, and similar issues. If you are interested drop me a line. If sufficient interest arises, I'll make it a full-blown list. Jim Browne jbrowne@jbrowne.com "I wish journalism would return to its glory days, when principled incorruptible men like William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer were in charge."- Vanessa Jackson, Piano Teacher, www.theonion.com
Similarly, is there such a thing as this in NYC? There's lots of inter-LEC hanky-panky here... And could someone define "DS0 shredding"? Thanks, Charles -- =-----------------= = | Charles Sprickman Internet Channel | | INCH System Administration Team (212)243-5200 | | spork@inch.com access@inch.com | = =----------------= On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Jim Browne wrote:
I'm trying to gauge interest among San Francisco Bay Area operators (ISPs and knowledgeable corporate customers) with respect to starting a mailing list or forum dedicated to the notification of LEC operational issues specific to the Bay Area.
I'm willing to run a list with a strict AUP. Such a list would allow customers of PacBell, ICG, TCG, Brooks, MFS, etc. to communicate outages such as the current DS0 shredding between Brooks and PacBell at SJ SpacePark. I'm interested in an emphasis on the tandems and PRI (dialup) related problems, but I'm sure there would be ample room for notifications regarding fiber cuts, DACS failures, and similar issues.
If you are interested drop me a line. If sufficient interest arises, I'll make it a full-blown list.
Jim Browne jbrowne@jbrowne.com "I wish journalism would return to its glory days, when principled incorruptible men like William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer were in charge."- Vanessa Jackson, Piano Teacher, www.theonion.com
At 15:08 -0500 1/22/99, Charles Sprickman wrote:
And could someone define "DS0 shredding"?
I doubt that term is in general use. We use it around the office to describe situations like the following: A LEC and an ILEC meet at a Central Office, let's call is SJSP. Something is wrong with the physical cross connect, say a flaky DS3 coxial cable. The bit errors introduced by the flaky cable cause some ISDN calls and digitized analog calls flowing through it to experience CRC errors. The end-user manifestation is 40% packet loss of IP over ISDN calls and 56K analog calls renegotiating to no end. Why the LEC or ILEC don't notice the errors is beyond me. Why particular ILECs seem to have this problem repeatedly is beyond me. Why the ILEC frustrates end-users and LECs by futzing with LERG tables and tandem capacity could be the subject of a good conspiracy theory. I admit that I don't know SS7 as well as IP, but I do seem to be able to troubleshoot these problems better than the people with the keys to the switch rooms. Problems like this are difficult to pinpoint as they usually affect callers coming from specific COs of the ILEC. End-users and ISPs are also not granted access to any debugging or analysis information that would help pinpoint and fix the problem. Telco ticket and front-line people have no idea what you are talking about. Thus, my desire to create the SF list. I have "inside" contacts at LECs and would like to cooperate with other users who have similar contacts so we can get these problems pinpointed, fixed, and hopefully apply positive pressure on both the LECs and ILEC. [I intend to keep SF-specific information off of NANOG. I felt the above question warranted a response though, considering I used confusing terminology.] Jim Browne jbrowne@jbrowne.com "I wish journalism would return to its glory days, when principled incorruptible men like William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer were in charge."- Vanessa Jackson, Piano Teacher, www.theonion.com
Of course the reason I asked, is I think we're suffering from it. What a catchy term! Symptoms sound similar, users at particular COs have problems, but maybe 4 out of 10 dial attempts. Analog users (the bulk of our userbase) can connect OK if this happens, but the modem resends from 20-50% of all 'blocks'. If it's a USR, ati6 shows this after disconnecting. Not sure exactly the unit 'block' is in modem speak... The end result is sub 1 Kb/s throughput, and a blinking error control light. We've had almost zero success in getting this fixed. We track it (our own office is on ILEC lines, modems on CLEC lines) and document times and numbers dialed to/from, yet even with that info no one can (is willing?) to fix it. Very annoying. In the past, we got some Brooklyn COs fixed, but this is really like playing whack-a-mole. Charles -- =-----------------= = | Charles Sprickman Internet Channel | | INCH System Administration Team (212)243-5200 | | spork@inch.com access@inch.com | = =----------------= On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Jim Browne wrote:
At 15:08 -0500 1/22/99, Charles Sprickman wrote:
And could someone define "DS0 shredding"?
I doubt that term is in general use. We use it around the office to describe situations like the following:
A LEC and an ILEC meet at a Central Office, let's call is SJSP. Something is wrong with the physical cross connect, say a flaky DS3 coxial cable. The bit errors introduced by the flaky cable cause some ISDN calls and digitized analog calls flowing through it to experience CRC errors. The end-user manifestation is 40% packet loss of IP over ISDN calls and 56K analog calls renegotiating to no end.
Why the LEC or ILEC don't notice the errors is beyond me. Why particular ILECs seem to have this problem repeatedly is beyond me. Why the ILEC frustrates end-users and LECs by futzing with LERG tables and tandem capacity could be the subject of a good conspiracy theory. I admit that I don't know SS7 as well as IP, but I do seem to be able to troubleshoot these problems better than the people with the keys to the switch rooms.
Problems like this are difficult to pinpoint as they usually affect callers coming from specific COs of the ILEC. End-users and ISPs are also not granted access to any debugging or analysis information that would help pinpoint and fix the problem. Telco ticket and front-line people have no idea what you are talking about.
Thus, my desire to create the SF list. I have "inside" contacts at LECs and would like to cooperate with other users who have similar contacts so we can get these problems pinpointed, fixed, and hopefully apply positive pressure on both the LECs and ILEC.
[I intend to keep SF-specific information off of NANOG. I felt the above question warranted a response though, considering I used confusing terminology.]
Jim Browne jbrowne@jbrowne.com "I wish journalism would return to its glory days, when principled incorruptible men like William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer were in charge."- Vanessa Jackson, Piano Teacher, www.theonion.com
On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Charles Sprickman wrote:
Of course the reason I asked, is I think we're suffering from it. What a catchy term!
Be careful! The NANOG police are out in force and may soon be sending out warrants for your arrest! Charges of offtopic soon to follow... Tim Disclaimer: Not that I'm bitter or anything.. ;P ---------------------------------------------------- Timothy M. Wolfe | Why surf when you can Sail? tim@clipper.net | Join Oregon's Premier Sr. Network Engineer | Wireless Internet Provider! ClipperNet Corporation | http://www.clipper.net/ ----------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Tim Wolfe wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Charles Sprickman wrote:
Of course the reason I asked, is I think we're suffering from it. What a catchy term!
Be careful! The NANOG police are out in force and may soon be sending out warrants for your arrest! Charges of offtopic soon to follow...
Heheh, it is not limited to the SF Bay Area, but if your looking for a CLEC list: http://www.robotics.net/clec/cleclist.html
<> Nathan Stratton Telecom & ISP Consulting http://www.robotics.net nathan@robotics.net
Tim
Disclaimer: Not that I'm bitter or anything.. ;P
---------------------------------------------------- Timothy M. Wolfe | Why surf when you can Sail? tim@clipper.net | Join Oregon's Premier Sr. Network Engineer | Wireless Internet Provider! ClipperNet Corporation | http://www.clipper.net/ ----------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Tim Wolfe wrote:
Be careful! The NANOG police are out in force and may soon be sending out warrants for your arrest! Charges of offtopic soon to follow...
You know, I didn't even intend to send to nanog. I'm a bit too touchy with reply-to-all on this list, perhaps it's something subliminal. I would put up quite a fight though if it came down to a fight over whether telco issues or dns-policy were more appropriate... Personally, I don't think either are, unless we're talking telco issues of DS1 and above. Hence why I'm calling my post a blunder. Charles
Tim
Disclaimer: Not that I'm bitter or anything.. ;P
---------------------------------------------------- Timothy M. Wolfe | Why surf when you can Sail? tim@clipper.net | Join Oregon's Premier Sr. Network Engineer | Wireless Internet Provider! ClipperNet Corporation | http://www.clipper.net/ ----------------------------------------------------
At 10:38 -0800 1/22/99, Jim Browne wrote:
If you are interested drop me a line. If sufficient interest arises, I'll make it a full-blown list.
Said list has been created. If you care to join, send email to majordomo@lists.alink.net and put the following in the message body: SUBSCRIBE sf-telco myemailaddress@mydomain.xx Replace "myemailaddress@mydomain.xx" with the email address at which you would like to receive list messages. Jim Browne jbrowne@jbrowne.com "I wish journalism would return to its glory days, when principled incorruptible men like William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer were in charge."- Vanessa Jackson, Piano Teacher, www.theonion.com
participants (4)
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Charles Sprickman -
Jim Browne -
Nathan Stratton -
Tim Wolfe