My point is more along the line of if you're depending on a service which provides only best-effort on uptime (as Bill Herrin mentioned, some providers can barely manage 2 nines of 911 uptime) and to which you're connected by a single, fault-prone connection, and which provides no guarantee of service even if you CAN contact them, calling it "critical" is kind of a joke, and you'd probably get laughed at by a risk analyst. If you're serious about protecting health and home, you'd better have some other plan in place that doesn't have a ridiculous number of single points of failure. Pete Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
I've never met a dog properly trained in ACLS and I'm pretty sure that a gun isn't even useful for BLS.
Owen
On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Peter Kristolaitis <alter3d@alter3d.ca> wrote:
Considering that none of the services that can be dispatched by 911 are legally required to help you in most North American jurisdictions (i.e. if you call 911 and the police don't respond until they finish eating their box of donuts, they're not criminally or civilly liable), having working 911 services really doesn't guarantee you anything. Most security monitoring companies have contracts that are completely worthless and guarantee nothing as well.
If you're depending on 911 for life safety and property protection, I'd recommend revising that plan to include a dog and/or gun. :-)
- Pete
Nathan Eisenberg <nathan@atlasnetworks.us> wrote:
Residences aren't critical infrastructure, no matter how angry the owners get.
911 access isn't a critical service? Fire and security panels aren't critical services?
If basic life safety and property protection aren't critical services, I'm not sure what is. These are peoples' lives and families and homes. There is nothing - repeat, nothing - more important than that. It is absolutely a critical service.
Nathan Eisenberg
On 8/5/12, Peter Kristolaitis <alter3d@alter3d.ca> wrote:
My point is more along the line of if you're depending on a service which provides only best-effort on uptime (as Bill Herrin mentioned, some providers can barely manage 2 nines of 911 uptime) and to which you're connected by a single, fault-prone connection, and which provides no guarantee of service even if you CAN contact them, calling it "critical" is kind of a joke, and you'd probably get laughed at by a risk analyst. If
I've yet to hear of a successful lawsuit bringing a victim back to life. Criticality is defined based on the impact and importance of the service not working correctly, not on its actual lack of fault tolerance mechanisms. The lack of proper reliability, if/where that's the case, is a regulatory issue that should be addressed by citizens contacting their government, and entering complaints with their elected reps.
you're serious about protecting health and home, you'd better have some other plan in place that doesn't have a ridiculous number of single points of failure.
Plan away, there are still situations where assistance would be absolutely essential. Your example of "add a Dog and Gun" to the plan may help in case of "Police not available"; it won't help against multiple armed adversaries carrying drugged meat to seduce dogs, who just want to kill without regard. It won't help in case of no response to call for Fire department or Medical. Dogs and Guns are also dangerous implements, require skills to operate and a great deal of care and mainteinance, there are more people accidentally injured or killed by them, or discharging them illegally, or their guns getting stolen and turned against them, than successfully using them in a legal tactically appropriate way for self-defense.
Pete -- -JH
Agreed. My point was that the police have the least of all emergency services to do with protection of life and property and that a gun or a dog only helps you with the functions that they can perform. People depend on 911 for much more than just police and if you're trying to come up with an alternate plan, it's much more important to address the questions of emergency medical services and fire protection than the relatively lower risk of threats from an intruder. Owen On Aug 5, 2012, at 05:50 , Peter Kristolaitis <alter3d@alter3d.ca> wrote:
My point is more along the line of if you're depending on a service which provides only best-effort on uptime (as Bill Herrin mentioned, some providers can barely manage 2 nines of 911 uptime) and to which you're connected by a single, fault-prone connection, and which provides no guarantee of service even if you CAN contact them, calling it "critical" is kind of a joke, and you'd probably get laughed at by a risk analyst. If you're serious about protecting health and home, you'd better have some other plan in place that doesn't have a ridiculous number of single points of failure.
Pete
Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
I've never met a dog properly trained in ACLS and I'm pretty sure that a gun isn't even useful for BLS.
Owen
On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Peter Kristolaitis <alter3d@alter3d.ca> wrote:
Considering that none of the services that can be dispatched by 911 are legally required to help you in most North American jurisdictions (i.e. if you call 911 and the police don't respond until they finish eating their box of donuts, they're not criminally or civilly liable), having working 911 services really doesn't guarantee you anything. Most security monitoring companies have contracts that are completely worthless and guarantee nothing as well.
If you're depending on 911 for life safety and property protection, I'd recommend revising that plan to include a dog and/or gun. :-)
- Pete
Nathan Eisenberg <nathan@atlasnetworks.us> wrote:
Residences aren't critical infrastructure, no matter how angry the owners get.
911 access isn't a critical service? Fire and security panels aren't critical services?
If basic life safety and property protection aren't critical services, I'm not sure what is. These are peoples' lives and families and homes. There is nothing - repeat, nothing - more important than that. It is absolutely a critical service.
Nathan Eisenberg
participants (3)
-
Jimmy Hess -
Owen DeLong -
Peter Kristolaitis