Just found this... http://www.internetweek.com/story/INW20010807S0008
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Smith, Rick wrote:
Just found this...
That nicely completes the BK suite: NorthPoint, Rhythms, Covad. DSL now in firm control of the ILECs, competition crushed. --Mitch NetSide
On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 10:42:30 EDT, Mitch Halmu said:
That nicely completes the BK suite: NorthPoint, Rhythms, Covad. DSL now in firm control of the ILECs, competition crushed.
I've seen several references to Covad's business unit that does DSL continuing normal operations - it's the parent company that's reorganizing. If they *do* make a good stock-for-debt swap, they may come out in a much *more* competitive position. How would YOUR balance sheets look if you suddenly had $160M/year more to play with? In today's business climate, I'd *worry* if my competitor went Chapter 11 with a good clear reorganization plan (as opposed to a liquidation plan). -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 10:42:30 EDT, Mitch Halmu said:
That nicely completes the BK suite: NorthPoint, Rhythms, Covad. DSL now in firm control of the ILECs, competition crushed.
I've seen several references to Covad's business unit that does DSL continuing normal operations - it's the parent company that's reorganizing.
If they *do* make a good stock-for-debt swap, they may come out in a much *more* competitive position. How would YOUR balance sheets look if you suddenly had $160M/year more to play with?
In today's business climate, I'd *worry* if my competitor went Chapter 11 with a good clear reorganization plan (as opposed to a liquidation plan).
Ownership of the C/O and the last mile confers ILECs an unfair advantage in this business. While they have set up separate companies for Internet access, they still benefit from moving funds from one pocket to another, within the same conglomerate. No independent company can realistically have a fair shot at competing in this environment, as demonstrated by the string of bankruptcies we just witnessed. --Mitch NetSide
Also sprach Mitch Halmu
Ownership of the C/O and the last mile confers ILECs an unfair advantage in this business. While they have set up separate companies for Internet access, they still benefit from moving funds from one pocket to another, within the same conglomerate. No independent company can realistically have a fair shot at competing in this environment, as demonstrated by the string of bankruptcies we just witnessed.
To pick a nit here. BellSouth sells their Internet services and regulated telco services out of the same actual company within the corporate umbrella. This just means that the moving money from one pocket to another is even *worse* in this case as its *purely* an accounting entry, there's not even the *pretense* that there's a cash transaction going on. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Mitch Halmu wrote:
Ownership of the C/O and the last mile confers ILECs an unfair advantage in this business
I'd agree with that, but I think there's more to it than that. Cash management and order turnaround time play a big role in the success of a DLEC, too. -- JustThe.net LLC - Steve "Web Dude" Sobol, CTO - sjsobol@JustThe.net Donate a portion of your monthly ISP bill to your favorite charity or non-profit organization! E-mail me for details.
:> Ownership of the C/O and the last mile confers ILECs an unfair advantage :> in this business : :I'd agree with that, but I think there's more to it than that. Cash :management and order turnaround time play a big role in the success of a :DLEC, too. Bingo. Before everyone cries for the DLECs, many (including myself, a card-carrying RBOC-basher) would argue that embarassingly poor cash management was one of the most significant factors contributing to the demise of the "big three". -brian
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Brian Wallingford wrote:
Bingo. Before everyone cries for the DLECs, many (including myself, a card-carrying RBOC-basher) would argue that embarassingly poor cash management was one of the most significant factors contributing to the demise of the "big three".
I am by no means a Baby Bell apologist, having seen the way our local RBOC screws its competitors, but IIRC collections was a big issue for all three of the DLECs. -- JustThe.net LLC - Steve "Web Dude" Sobol, CTO - sjsobol@JustThe.net Donate a portion of your monthly ISP bill to your favorite charity or non-profit organization! E-mail me for details.
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Smith, Rick wrote:
Just found this...
As someone who has 14 DS3s into their network I think this is very good news. Covad was crushed with $160 million a year payments on $1.3 billion in debt. That now all gets converted into common stock (sucks for common shareholders) and everything is reset. This lowers cash needed to break even down to $200 million from $400 million. -Nathan
And just in case anyone is curious, this is a potential scenario for many struggling telco startups. (Bankruptcy to clear debt and eliminate interest payments so there there is at least a CHANCE to pull ahead.) -Wayne On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:45:15AM -0400, Nathan Stratton wrote:
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Smith, Rick wrote:
Just found this...
As someone who has 14 DS3s into their network I think this is very good news. Covad was crushed with $160 million a year payments on $1.3 billion in debt. That now all gets converted into common stock (sucks for common shareholders) and everything is reset. This lowers cash needed to break even down to $200 million from $400 million.
-Nathan
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Wayne E. Bouchard wrote:
And just in case anyone is curious, this is a potential scenario for many struggling telco startups. (Bankruptcy to clear debt and eliminate interest payments so there there is at least a CHANCE to pull ahead.)
Yep, on top of that many companies that are bringing in some new money are buying back debt at pennies on the dollar and lowering their debt burden by quite a bit. Having said that I am still happy that I am not dependent on DSL, I also use T1 and frac T1 as last mile access technologies.
<> Nathan Stratton CTO, Exario Networks, Inc. nathan@robotics.net nathan@exario.net http://www.robotics.net http://www.exario.net
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Smith, Rick wrote:
Just found this...
i read a similar article y'day, and that was the first that i had heard mention of rhythms going down. either i was too busy pulling my hair out last month or they were really good about keeping it quiet. *sigh* looks like verizon is gonna be the only xdsl provider left solvent when the dust settles. how scary is that, and how predictable? deeann m.m. mikula director of operations telerama public access internet http://www.telerama.com 1.877.688.3200
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, deeann mikula wrote:
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Smith, Rick wrote:
Just found this...
i read a similar article y'day, and that was the first that i had heard mention of rhythms going down. either i was too busy pulling my hair out last month or they were really good about keeping it quiet. *sigh*
looks like verizon is gonna be the only xdsl provider left solvent when the dust settles. how scary is that, and how predictable?
Although this may well ultimately prove true, people do realize that filing for chapter 11 is not synonymous with going out of business, right? James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor up@3.am http://3.am =========================================================================
On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:56:48AM -0400, up@3.am wrote:
Although this may well ultimately prove true, people do realize that filing for chapter 11 is not synonymous with going out of business, right?
While not synonymous, they are very close for a tech company. Chapter 11 takes a long time, and during that time you don't get to upgrade your network or the like. Having a year of no upgrades in a network often leads to customers leaving. Just try to win any new business while in Chapter 11. Bottom line, if a tech company makes it through chapter 11, they are quite likely to come out very week, and very behind. Never say never, Covad could still go on to do wonderful things, but I think the odds are heavily stacked against them. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 up@3.am wrote:
looks like verizon is gonna be the only xdsl provider left solvent when the dust settles. how scary is that, and how predictable?
Although this may well ultimately prove true, people do realize that filing for chapter 11 is not synonymous with going out of business, right?
yes yes yes, but i'm not optimistic, that all. (actually, generally i am, but when it comes to competing with the RBOCs, i have no hope for anyone.) deeann m.m. mikula director of operations telerama public access internet http://www.telerama.com 1.877.688.3200
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, deeann mikula wrote:
looks like verizon is gonna be the only xdsl provider left solvent when the dust settles.
Maybe. Maybe not. -- JustThe.net LLC - Steve "Web Dude" Sobol, CTO - sjsobol@JustThe.net Donate a portion of your monthly ISP bill to your favorite charity or non-profit organization! E-mail me for details.
participants (11)
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Brian Wallingford -
deeann mikula -
Jeff Mcadams -
Leo Bicknell -
Mitch Halmu -
Nathan Stratton -
Smith, Rick -
Steven J. Sobol -
up＠3.am -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu -
Wayne E. Bouchard