Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee. To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC: <http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html> If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes. I wish I could be there! Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone on this list have any contacts at either of these papers? jc
Just a brief statement that kinda goes without saying but I'll say it anyway. Although I'm not going to be there personally, I do intend to watch the netcast. I would just ask (and I'm sure merit folks share this) that despite the actions that have been taken by verisign and the conflicts etc, that people please be curteous and not just outright harrass their representatives but allow them to make their presentation as they intend. (The last thing we need to do is lend credence to the statements that have been made in the press regarding this community.) On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:19:59AM -0700, JC Dill wrote:
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
<http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html>
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
I wish I could be there!
Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone on this list have any contacts at either of these papers?
jc
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Maybe a "vote" at the end of the presentation would be better. After Verisign has to say what they want, it would be interesting to see what the participants think of starting Site Finder again. Its not as press worthy... but it lets Verisign have their say, and gives the community a voice right there on the spot on the issue. -Chris Wayne E. Bouchard wrote:
Just a brief statement that kinda goes without saying but I'll say it anyway.
Although I'm not going to be there personally, I do intend to watch the netcast.
I would just ask (and I'm sure merit folks share this) that despite the actions that have been taken by verisign and the conflicts etc, that people please be curteous and not just outright harrass their representatives but allow them to make their presentation as they intend. (The last thing we need to do is lend credence to the statements that have been made in the press regarding this community.)
On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:19:59AM -0700, JC Dill wrote:
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
<http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html>
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
I wish I could be there!
Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone on this list have any contacts at either of these papers?
jc
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
At 11:56 AM 10/16/2003, Chris Strandt wrote:
Maybe a "vote" at the end of the presentation would be better.
After Verisign has to say what they want, it would be interesting to see what the participants think of starting Site Finder again.
Its not as press worthy... but it lets Verisign have their say, and gives the community a voice right there on the spot on the issue.
Have a vote with the tomatoes. All those who oppose the wildcards would put their tomatoes or tomato-substitutes in one pile, all those who approve of the wildcards would put their token-of-choice in another pile. We need a *visual* way to make the point to Verisign, to ICANN, to the press, to the Internet using public who do not understand the underlying technical issue. The press is not going to put this story on the wire and carry it on the front page of newspapers around the world if the story is "NANOG meeting attendees voted 417 to 3 to indicate disapproval of Verisign's wildcard scheme in the .com and .net root server". A photo montage showing people buying tomatoes, holding tomatoes, placing tomatoes in a pile, a room full of people wearing red shirts, etc. THAT is what the press needs to get the message out to the people to shame ICANN into doing the right thing. Look at this as a photo-op for NANOG participants to collectively make their point known in a visually graphic way. jc
At 12:45 PM -0700 10/16/03, JC Dill wrote:
At 11:56 AM 10/16/2003, Chris Strandt wrote:
Maybe a "vote" at the end of the presentation would be better.
After Verisign has to say what they want, it would be interesting to see what the participants think of starting Site Finder again.
Its not as press worthy... but it lets Verisign have their say, and gives the community a voice right there on the spot on the issue.
Have a vote with the tomatoes. All those who oppose the wildcards would put their tomatoes or tomato-substitutes in one pile, all those who approve of the wildcards would put their token-of-choice in another pile.
I'm not sure I really want to think about the alternate-token-of-choice. Let me stipulate that I was born and brought up in Northern New Jersey, started as a chemist exposed to the usual organic chemistry aromas, and STILL consider some things as smelling bad. :-)
We need a *visual* way to make the point to Verisign, to ICANN, to the press, to the Internet using public who do not understand the underlying technical issue. The press is not going to put this story on the wire and carry it on the front page of newspapers around the world if the story is "NANOG meeting attendees voted 417 to 3 to indicate disapproval of Verisign's wildcard scheme in the .com and .net root server". A photo montage showing people buying tomatoes, holding tomatoes, placing tomatoes in a pile, a room full of people wearing red shirts, etc. THAT is what the press needs to get the message out to the people to shame ICANN into doing the right thing. Look at this as a photo-op for NANOG participants to collectively make their point known in a visually graphic way.
From experience back in my more general political days, either have a see-through bag or basket for the tomatoes. While a nice pyramid would be nice, without very careful handling, we will have tomatoes bouncing in all directions.
The two options are not mutually exclusive, and, since Verisign has chosen to turn this into a press-battle, I think it would be good not to ignore that battlefield. Owen --On Thursday, October 16, 2003 14:56 -0400 Chris Strandt <strandtc@liquidweb.com> wrote:
Maybe a "vote" at the end of the presentation would be better.
After Verisign has to say what they want, it would be interesting to see what the participants think of starting Site Finder again.
Its not as press worthy... but it lets Verisign have their say, and gives the community a voice right there on the spot on the issue.
-Chris
Wayne E. Bouchard wrote:
Just a brief statement that kinda goes without saying but I'll say it anyway.
Although I'm not going to be there personally, I do intend to watch the netcast.
I would just ask (and I'm sure merit folks share this) that despite the actions that have been taken by verisign and the conflicts etc, that people please be curteous and not just outright harrass their representatives but allow them to make their presentation as they intend. (The last thing we need to do is lend credence to the statements that have been made in the press regarding this community.)
On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:19:59AM -0700, JC Dill wrote:
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
<http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html>
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
I wish I could be there!
Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone on this list have any contacts at either of these papers?
jc
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Agreed. I plan to wear a red shirt and bring a tomatoe. The tomato will sit quietly on the table near me. It will not be used as a projectile no matter how much Verisign tries to convince me it should. Really. I will not throw the tomato at Verisign no matter how much they deserve it. Wayne is right. For this to have the desired effect, we need to make it a peaceful and symbolic protest, not a brawl. Owen --On Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:36 -0700 "Wayne E. Bouchard" <web@typo.org> wrote:
Just a brief statement that kinda goes without saying but I'll say it anyway.
Although I'm not going to be there personally, I do intend to watch the netcast.
I would just ask (and I'm sure merit folks share this) that despite the actions that have been taken by verisign and the conflicts etc, that people please be curteous and not just outright harrass their representatives but allow them to make their presentation as they intend. (The last thing we need to do is lend credence to the statements that have been made in the press regarding this community.)
On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:19:59AM -0700, JC Dill wrote:
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
<http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html>
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
I wish I could be there!
Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone on this list have any contacts at either of these papers?
jc
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
At 12:00 PM 10/16/2003, Owen DeLong wrote:
Agreed. I plan to wear a red shirt and bring a tomatoe. The tomato will sit quietly on the table near me. It will not be used as a projectile no matter how much Verisign tries to convince me it should. Really. I will not throw the tomato at Verisign no matter how much they deserve it.
Wayne is right. For this to have the desired effect, we need to make it a peaceful and symbolic protest, not a brawl.
EXACTLY.
I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards.
Great idea! Can we count on Dan for tomato acquisition and for Owen for post-protest dispersal to a foodbank? jc (I so wish I could be there!) -- JC Dill 370 Altair #353 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 650-669-1664 jcdill@vo.cnchost.com AIM: UltraJCDill Y!IM: jcdill
: >Agreed. I plan to wear a red shirt and bring a tomatoe. The tomato will : >sit quietly on the table near me. It will not be used as a projectile : >no matter how much Verisign tries to convince me it should. Really. : >I will not throw the tomato at Verisign no matter how much they deserve it. : > : >Wayne is right. For this to have the desired effect, we need to make it : >a peaceful and symbolic protest, not a brawl. : : EXACTLY. : (I so wish I could be there!) Me too. If this goes through, someone please be sure to get pictures.
:-) scott
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, JC Dill wrote:
Great idea! Can we count on Dan for tomato acquisition and for Owen for post-protest dispersal to a foodbank?
Having been a part of many fraternity pranks along this line, I might remind some of a glitch with this line of thinking. VeriSign employees read this list. (Verisign shows up with tomatoes & red "I love VeriSign" shirts saying if you like the idea...wear shirt && grab tomato to stack up front.) This works better spontaneously on site. Great idea, but being voiced in advance means your effort can be put to their use. (If you were playing a prank on my fraternity, that's what I'd do.) I don't think this idea, while amusing, will accomplish the goal. The bind patch and other methods of nullifying their corporate group think crap that makes them think this is a good idea is more our style. (Play smarter, not harder.) Gerald
I think that the number of people showing that they oppose Verisign would still carry the day on the meaning of the tomatoes and red shirts. Verisign could try to delude themselves into believing it was ambiguous, but, I don't think the press or the attendees would buy it. Also, I don't think Verisign regards us as important enough to put that level of effort into such an activity. As such, I still think we should go ahead and I think it will have some of the desired effects. If not, it'll still be fun and historic within NANOG. Owen --On Thursday, October 16, 2003 16:28 -0400 Gerald <gcoon@inch.com> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, JC Dill wrote:
Great idea! Can we count on Dan for tomato acquisition and for Owen for post-protest dispersal to a foodbank?
Having been a part of many fraternity pranks along this line, I might remind some of a glitch with this line of thinking.
VeriSign employees read this list. (Verisign shows up with tomatoes & red "I love VeriSign" shirts saying if you like the idea...wear shirt && grab tomato to stack up front.)
This works better spontaneously on site. Great idea, but being voiced in advance means your effort can be put to their use. (If you were playing a prank on my fraternity, that's what I'd do.)
I don't think this idea, while amusing, will accomplish the goal. The bind patch and other methods of nullifying their corporate group think crap that makes them think this is a good idea is more our style. (Play smarter, not harder.)
Gerald
Gerald <gcoon@inch.com> writes:
Having been a part of many fraternity pranks along this line, I might remind some of a glitch with this line of thinking.
VeriSign employees read this list. (Verisign shows up with tomatoes & red "I love VeriSign" shirts saying if you like the idea...wear shirt && grab tomato to stack up front.)
It won't be anything that blatant. They'll just have their PR people prepare a strategy to make it look ridiculous ("Old guard technologists threaten innovation with tomatoes"). Verisign has conceded that NANOGers are apposed to the wildcards in com and net--that isn't their battle. To make an impression on the press, you've got to show why it *matters* that you're against it, and a pile of tomatoes is not going to do it. If anything, it plays right into their hands by positioning them as the authority and NANOG as a bunch of immature college pranksters. If I were Verisign PR, I'd love having that material to work with.
I don't think this idea, while amusing, will accomplish the goal. The bind patch and other methods of nullifying their corporate group think crap that makes them think this is a good idea is more our style. (Play smarter, not harder.)
And write your congressmen to explain how Verisign is abusing a government granted monopoly to stop others (including M$ and AOL) from innovating at the edge, because that's where this is headed--Verisign is ultimately counting on having better lobbyists with USDOC than ICANN, and they're probably safe to do so unless DOC feels some oversight from above. -dan
On Oct 16, 2003, at 9:39 PM, Dan Riley wrote:
<snip> And write your congressmen to explain how Verisign is abusing a government granted monopoly to stop others (including M$ and AOL) from innovating at the edge, because that's where this is headed--Verisign is ultimately counting on having better lobbyists with USDOC than ICANN, and they're probably safe to do so unless DOC feels some oversight from above.
Has anybody thought to explore the trademark implications of sitefinder? For example, verisign is returning A records (and subsequently earning revenue from that traffic) for say: COKE-SOFT-DRINK.COM TIDE-DETERGENT.COM etc.. Perhaps having the legal departments from Coke and P&G targetting them might make verisign rethink some policies? Perhaps not.. just a thought..
-dan
-- Matt Levine <matt@deliver3.com> "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -BIX
Has anybody thought to explore the trademark implications of sitefinder?
For example, verisign is returning A records (and subsequently earning revenue from that traffic) for say:
COKE-SOFT-DRINK.COM TIDE-DETERGENT.COM
etc..
From another perspective, it could be how Verisign
plans on making money off this. If they can redirect to their own Site Finder site, I'm sure they can redirect to other large corporations, who would probably pay for that kind of service. Buy this service, user types www.coke-soft-drink.com, and gets redirected automatically to www.coke.com. Corporations now have a much broader reach then yesterday. They'd make a deal on the trademark thing, if there is one. Kenny __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
KS> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:02:31 -0700 (PDT) KS> From: Kenny Sallee KS> to their own Site Finder site, I'm sure they can KS> redirect to other large corporations, who would KS> probably pay for that kind of service. Buy this VeriGator? *cringe* Eddy -- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 785 865 5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 316 794 8922 Wichita _________________________________________________________________ DO NOT send mail to the following addresses : blacklist@brics.com -or- alfra@intc.net -or- curbjmp@intc.net Sending mail to spambait addresses is a great way to get blocked.
Wouldn't it be just as easy to pay GoDaddy $9 per year and do a redirect yourself instead of relying on a verisign that half the knowledgable network ops community has filtered/blackholed? Eric
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Kenny Sallee Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 4:03 PM To: Matt Levine; Dan Riley Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Tomatoes for Verisign at NANOG 29
Has anybody thought to explore the trademark implications of sitefinder?
For example, verisign is returning A records (and subsequently earning revenue from that traffic) for say:
COKE-SOFT-DRINK.COM TIDE-DETERGENT.COM
etc..
From another perspective, it could be how Verisign plans on making money off this. If they can redirect to their own Site Finder site, I'm sure they can redirect to other large corporations, who would probably pay for that kind of service. Buy this service, user types www.coke-soft-drink.com, and gets redirected automatically to www.coke.com. Corporations now have a much broader reach then yesterday. They'd make a deal on the trademark thing, if there is one.
Kenny
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards. Owen --On Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:36 -0700 "Wayne E. Bouchard" <web@typo.org> wrote:
Just a brief statement that kinda goes without saying but I'll say it anyway.
Although I'm not going to be there personally, I do intend to watch the netcast.
I would just ask (and I'm sure merit folks share this) that despite the actions that have been taken by verisign and the conflicts etc, that people please be curteous and not just outright harrass their representatives but allow them to make their presentation as they intend. (The last thing we need to do is lend credence to the statements that have been made in the press regarding this community.)
On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:19:59AM -0700, JC Dill wrote:
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
<http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html>
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
I wish I could be there!
Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone on this list have any contacts at either of these papers?
jc
--- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards.
Or just use your time and resources to do some good for those who are less fortunate in the first place. Using food of any kind for such a display is simply unacceptable (and BTW, in no way funny or cute) in a world filled with so much hunger, poverty, and despair. Indeed, such an activity will reflect very poorly on us all, notwithstanding any issue relating to the DNS. Dave
At 01:32 PM 16-10-03 -0700, David Meyer wrote:
I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards.
Or just use your time and resources to do some good for those who are less fortunate in the first place. Using food of any kind for such a display is simply unacceptable (and BTW, in no way funny or cute) in a world filled with so much hunger, poverty, and despair. Indeed, such an activity will reflect very poorly on us all, notwithstanding any issue relating to the DNS.
I agree with Dave. Tomatoes or any other fruit is more of a fraternity stunt. It also involves logistics. Why not have everyone stand up and turn around and face the back of the auditorium while Verisign gives its presentation (and stand quietly)? It shows your displeasure and eliminates the chance that some hothead will toss his tomato. It also creates a great photo-shoot. Sorry I won't be there. Regards, Hank
Dave
Hi, NANOGers. Here is what I plan to do: Listen, and perhaps question. I'll register my pleasure or displeasure through my subsequent business and technical decisions. I may or may not approve of what is said, but I'll extend common courtesy to those who say it. You can save the rotten fruit for my presentation instead. I'm a moving target, and that makes it much more fun. :) Thanks, Rob. -- Rob Thomas http://www.cymru.com ASSERT(coffee != empty);
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
<http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/dns.html>
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt.
Ahem. Many of us are Star Trek experts, and it will take a LOT more than this to get people to wear a red shirt.
If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
Given that we deal, in any case, with virtualizations, I rather like the idea, instead, of projecting "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" on several walls. One can also explain that the careful designers at Verisign are spiritual kin to the producer and director of that movie.
participants (16)
-
Chris Strandt -
Dan Riley -
David Meyer -
E.B. Dreger -
Eric Germann -
Gerald -
Hank Nussbacher -
Howard C. Berkowitz -
JC Dill -
Kenny Sallee -
Matt Levine -
Owen DeLong -
Rob Thomas -
Scott Weeks -
Vadim Antonov -
Wayne E. Bouchard