PGP Corporate Desktop can help with ICQ if you are a Windows user. -ren, who prefers IRC At 12:24 PM 6/25/2002 -0700, Dan Hollis wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Christopher J. Wolff wrote:

...

So my question for the group is, do chat programs (IM, IRC, yahoo) serve a substantial network support purpose or are they more of a distraction, allowing staff to communicate with friends, relatives, drifters, interlopers on company time?

We find IRC and IM invaluable. Set up a private irc server behind the firewall, and use crypto-hard ICQ like licq. (if you use windoze you are probably out of luck though)

-Dan -- [-] Omae no subete no kichi wa ore no mono da. [-]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Dan Hollis wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Christopher J. Wolff wrote:

...

So my question for the group is, do chat programs (IM, IRC, yahoo) serve a substantial network support purpose or are they more of a distraction, allowing staff to communicate with friends, relatives, drifters, interlopers on company time?

We find IRC and IM invaluable. Set up a private irc server behind the firewall, and use crypto-hard ICQ like licq. (if you use windoze you are probably out of luck though)

I have to second the value of a private, staff-only IRC server. We use IRC to communicate with each other while on the phone with customers, clients, vendors, etc., and to communicate with offsite workers. We have 4 info-bots which provide up to the minute information about our dial-up capacity, new user accounts created, and as an interface with our "check-up" system to spew error messages to the channel, and as an interface to qpage for staff to alpha-page anyone. Then there is the benefit of pasting code snippets, config file snippet and error messages while discussing them in real time. Our staff is chastized for not paying attention to our staff channel. It's our primary form of office communication. I can't imagine life here without it. Deeann M.M. Mikula Director of Operations Telerama Public Access Internet http://www.telerama.com * 412.688.3200

-----Original Message----- From: Jason Lewis

Instead of banning, you should be looking into a secure IM client. Several companies make secure clients that also link up to the major players via a gateway.

Trillian is a combined (AIM, Y!, ICQ, IRC) client that supports secure direct P2P (peer to peer) connections. A Swiss Army Knife of communication! Btw, isn't it ass-backwards to state that you are establishing a corporate policy for banning IM, and then ask for feedback on whether or not IM serves a substantial network support purpose? Seems to me one would do discovery before creating policy.... ;) -Jim P.

Doug Barton wrote:

Would a secure (probably via SSL) chat client be considered a valuable item in this sphere? (Note, blatant self interest involved in this question, feel free to respond off list.) Jabber can do SSL for IM, and there is an irc-like encrypted chat called silc.

On Tue, Jun 25, 2002 at 11:33:55PM +0100, DaveHowe@gmx.co.uk said:

Doug Barton wrote:

...

Would a secure (probably via SSL) chat client be considered a valuable item in this sphere? (Note, blatant self interest involved in this question, feel free to respond off list.) Jabber can do SSL for IM, and there is an irc-like encrypted chat called silc.

You may also want to examine one of the several IRC hacks that incorporate SSL. The one I occasionally visit is suidnet <http://www.suidnet.org>. -- -= Scott Francis || darkuncle (at) darkuncle (dot) net =- GPG key CB33CCA7 has been revoked; I am now 5537F527 illum oportet crescere me autem minui

Jabber supports SSL connections

We run an internal Jabber server which all employees log into. This eliminates the reliance on an outside server (AOL/Yahoo/etc) as well as the security concerns of same outside servers.

Of course it's still cleartext over TCP, so it's not 100% secure but it's localized traffic.

We find it invaluable especially since our department has become geographically diverse. To be able to pop "Can you look at TT#XYZ?" vs an email or phone call is quite nice.

-Scott

...

-- Scott Call Router Geek, ATGi, home of $6.95 Prime Rib "...Everything's going to be just great again!"

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Daniel Golding wrote: : : Christopher, : : There are three questions here - are IM programs a security risk, is number : one. The second is, how does IM come into the network support/communications : equation. The third is, how much time gets wasted using IM or IRC? : : Peer to peer file sharing probably has no place in the business world. It's : a leisure thing, and can open you up to liability. On the other hand, who : wants to be the software police, more than is absolutely necessary? Deloitte & Touche doesn't seem to think so. They use "NextPage's NXT 3 platform to enable its employees to access, exchange, and manage distributed content-including large documents and directories of accounting regulations and best practices-as if the content were all in a single location. Through a series of content servers linked to form a peer-to-peer content network, users can search, navigate, and categorize data more quickly, easily, and securely than before. They don't need to replicate or convert the data from its original format." http://networkmagazine.com/article/NMG20020429S0001 scott : : As far as IM and IRC - many folks find them vital to running and : troubleshooting networks, communicating with customers, etc. They can be : timewasters, but no more so than abuse of the telephone can be. It's not so : much the tool, as the use of the tool that should be a matter of concern. : : IRC servers are significant security concerns. IRC Clients, coming from : behind firewalls, less so. Some folks implement private IRC servers bound to : localhost, behind firewalls, for internal use. This is much more secure. IM : tends to be insecure, as it's in cleartext, although encryption extensions : exist. Of course, most of your email is probably cleartext, too. A bigger : concern is that the servers live on someone else's network, so an outage : there may effect your operations. : : - Daniel Golding : : > -----Original Message----- : > From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of : > Christopher J. Wolff : > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 3:17 PM : > To: nanog@merit.edu : > Subject: How important is IM? was RE: How important is the PSTN : > : > : > : > Jane, : > : > This brings up a good point about IM. IMHO, IM is a security : > risk and I am : > establishing a company standard where users behind the firewall are : > prohibited from using IM, IRC, and peer-to-peer file sharing programs. My : > opinion is that these types of programs contribute more to lack of : > productivity than to real problem solving. : > : > So my question for the group is, do chat programs (IM, IRC, yahoo) serve a : > substantial network support purpose or are they more of a distraction, : > allowing staff to communicate with friends, relatives, drifters, : > interlopers : > on company time? : > : > Regards, : > Christopher J. Wolff, VP CIO : > Broadband Laboratories : > http://www.bblabs.com : > : > -----Original Message----- : > From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of : > Pawlukiewicz Jane : > Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:06 PM : > To: nanog@merit.edu : > Subject: How important is the PSTN : > : > : > Hi all, : > : > Thanks so much for all the great answers. (Could everyone please stop : > telling me that im = instant messaging). I knew I should've never gotten : > out of bed this morning. : > : > Anyway, 75% of the respondents said the phone is critical. 25% said some : > form of IM is critical. : > : > Just in case anyone was curious. : > : > Is it me or is it very quiet in here today? : > : > Jane : > : > : :

Hi Christopher, "Christopher J. Wolff" wrote:

Jane,

This brings up a good point about IM. IMHO, IM is a security risk and I am establishing a company standard where users behind the firewall are prohibited from using IM, IRC, and peer-to-peer file sharing programs. My opinion is that these types of programs contribute more to lack of productivity than to real problem solving.

I think the road you've chosen is a tough one. A great many people have contributed to this who are far more experienced than I. I believe we won't see IM going away. Everyone uses it, and like all humans, make it forbidden and the people in your company will view it as all the more desirable. There are a great many management tapes and videos and books out there, and they basically say the same thing. Trust your people to do their job and don't worry if they play games or talk on IM. Measure them by the metrics you've given them. And don't sweat the small stuff. (Easy to say, I know.) My teenager can play a computer game, chat with his friends through IM and talk on the phone, all while he's writing his science report. And the reports not all that bad because I proof everything he turns in (except the French). As long as his grades are in the A-B range, I restrict nothing. well, almost nothing. But if his grades drop . . . the ax comes down. If the issue is viruses, there are a great many ways to screen viruses even through IM. I trust our staff to be sure they are all implemented. My two cents, for what its worth. I've tried micro managing and it never never (I'm restraining myself from saying never 20 times) works.

So my question for the group is, do chat programs (IM, IRC, yahoo) serve a substantial network support purpose or are they more of a distraction, allowing staff to communicate with friends, relatives, drifters, interlopers on company time?

I think people do this anyway, we used to chat around the coffee pot. I think its funny when office mates are chatting away on IM. People cannot produce 24/7 or even 8/5. They have to take a break every hour or so. Human nature. We have a game room here at work . . . People are going to play, so create the environment where they can. Opps, got my own deadline slipping now! Hope you can resolve this soon. Jane

Regards, Christopher J. Wolff, VP CIO Broadband Laboratories http://www.bblabs.com

-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Pawlukiewicz Jane Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:06 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: How important is the PSTN

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all the great answers. (Could everyone please stop telling me that im = instant messaging). I knew I should've never gotten out of bed this morning.

Anyway, 75% of the respondents said the phone is critical. 25% said some form of IM is critical.

Just in case anyone was curious.

Is it me or is it very quiet in here today?

Jane