Our ISP was just served a warrant (out of California) demanding our dialup logs and email backup tapes. So far, the warrant is probably invalid, as it mis-named the company. And as far as we can tell, we are not being charged with anything -- or at least we have not been told so. We only have our usual contracts attorney, and he seems a bit out of his depth. This is pretty invasive to our customers. We'll have a dickens of a time complying, as we don't back up client email, except at odd intervals backing up entire systems. And we only keep dialing logs around for a few months at a time, since we don't use them for billing. Is anyone else having this experience? If so, what have you done? WSimpson@UMich.edu Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32
On Tue, Jul 28, 1998 at 10:24:31PM +0000, William Allen Simpson wrote:
Our ISP was just served a warrant (out of California) demanding our dialup logs and email backup tapes. So far, the warrant is probably invalid, as it mis-named the company. And as far as we can tell, we are not being charged with anything -- or at least we have not been told so. We only have our usual contracts attorney, and he seems a bit out of his depth.
I think it is unreasonable to demand copies of email, although it is not unreasonable to demand copies of logs. I can't believe you're being served with a warrant with no explanation of why, though. Are you sure it's a *warrant*? Are you sure it's not a subpoena for a court case? -- Steven J. Sobol - Founding Member, Postmaster/Webmaster, ISP Liaison -- Forum for Responsible & Ethical E-mail (FREE) - Dedicated to education about, and prevention of, Unsolicited Broadcast E-mail (UBE), also known as SPAM. Info: http://www.ybecker.net
On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Steven J. Sobol wrote:
On Tue, Jul 28, 1998 at 10:24:31PM +0000, William Allen Simpson wrote:
Our ISP was just served a warrant (out of California) demanding our dialup logs and email backup tapes. So far, the warrant is probably invalid, as it mis-named the company. And as far as we can tell, we are not being charged with anything -- or at least we have not been told so. We only have our usual contracts attorney, and he seems a bit out of his depth.
I think it is unreasonable to demand copies of email, although it is not unreasonable to demand copies of logs. I can't believe you're being served with a warrant with no explanation of why, though. Are you sure it's a *warrant*? Are you sure it's not a subpoena for a court case?
I am not an attorney... but, if it is a Grand Jury Subpoena, they usually can't tell you much about it anyways. You just have to give them the info that they are requesting. or... Why don't you just pick up the phone and call the person that issued it. They, most of the time, will be very helpful and let you know what is needed etc... Christian
Why don't you just pick up the phone and call the person that issued it. They, most of the time, will be very helpful and let you know what is needed etc...
I would talk to counsel FIRST. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
On Tue, Jul 28, 1998 at 10:24:31PM +0000, William Allen Simpson wrote:
Our ISP was just served a warrant (out of California) demanding our dialup logs and email backup tapes. So far, the warrant is probably invalid, as it mis-named the company. And as far as we can tell, we are not being charged with anything -- or at least we have not been told so. We only have our usual contracts attorney, and he seems a bit out of his depth.
This is pretty invasive to our customers. We'll have a dickens of a time complying, as we don't back up client email, except at odd intervals backing up entire systems. And we only keep dialing logs around for a few months at a time, since we don't use them for billing.
Is anyone else having this experience? If so, what have you done?
WSimpson@UMich.edu Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32
Talk to a lawyer who understands this. IN GENERAL - a state-based subpoena out of jurisdiction does not have to be complied with. HOWEVER, the issuer can then turn around and get it served out of your state (if they want to). Its a pain in the ass for them to do this, but they certainly CAN. If you have what's in the subpoena, and the subpoena is valid, you either comply or risk a contempt citation from the judge who signed it. You don't have to produce what you don't have, obviously (you can't invent things that don't exist!) You CAN fight a subpoena (and you might even be able to get it quashed). You really need a good attorney to look this situation over. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%! Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
participants (5)
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Christian Nielsen -
David Lesher -
Karl Denninger -
Steven J. Sobol -
William Allen Simpson