Re: Cisco as Big Brother (Was Re: Cisco's AIP vs HSSI)
At 01:29 AM 10/16/96 -0500, Alan Hannan wrote:
Although, I know lots of smart smart smart people who haven't. One of them is looking for a job, and he's not looking at cisco. (not me...)
-alan
Alan; Somebody has to stay out of the cisco orbit to give the others a chance to figure it out. :-) Seriously, I started out with Proteon p4200 routers and I was one of the ones to talk Wellfleet into building a router (me and a hundred others) when what they wanted to sell were bridges. cisco came in third for the NEARnet startup. One of the reasons that cisco has earned its place as Number One is that, to my knowledge, cisco has never terminally screwed a client. No other contender can make that claim with me. I've been screwed by all of them, except cisco. They don't always give me what I want when I want it, but they don't do fundamentally bad things like walking away from the ISP market as Proteon did or wiping out their upper management team as Wellfleet did from time to time. cisco is no longer easy to work with in many respects, there is so much management for a large company. But in the early days, cisco was one of the first companies to turn their customer support inside out on the Net. You could (still can) talk to anyone in the company about almost anything. Not as easy as it was, but it can happen. But you can't get one engineer to hack something into the router code for you on just his say-so anymore. But once you could. I dunno maybe you still can, but I think you have to have megabucks behind you to do it. --Kent
But you can't get one engineer to hack something into the router code for you on just his say-so anymore. But once you could. I dunno maybe you still can, but I think you have to have megabucks behind you to do it. Yes, you can, but you have to do it under the table and via direct contacts. And a bottle of cask strength single malt will help. ;-) Tony
But you can't get one engineer to hack something into the router code for you on just his say-so anymore. But once you could. I dunno maybe you still can, but I think you have to have megabucks behind you to do it.
Yes, you can, but you have to do it under the table and via direct contacts. And a bottle of cask strength single malt will help. ;-)
You know, I find it hard to think of this as a feature - especially given the number of times the "quick hack" broke something else. And it's always missing the next release of the software. It takes an Act of God to get Bay to release a fix - but it works when they release it, and it works in the next full release too.
In message <199610180717.AAA16438@netservice.ca.navigist.com>, "Joe Rhett" writ es:
But you can't get one engineer to hack something into the router code for you on just his say-so anymore. But once you could. I dunno maybe you still can, but I think you have to have megabucks behind you to do it.
Yes, you can, but you have to do it under the table and via direct contacts. And a bottle of cask strength single malt will help. ;-)
You know, I find it hard to think of this as a feature - especially given the number of times the "quick hack" broke something else. And it's always missing the next release of the software.
It takes an Act of God to get Bay to release a fix - but it works when they release it, and it works in the next full release too.
I know of a bunch of very useful things that originated this way that are in production code on my cisco boxes now. If sprint had been in a situtation where they need a new feature X in order to make the network run at all, because no one had designed they network to grow like it did, I'd hate to have bought Bay and not be able to get a timely fix. I would definately ask my router vendor hard questions about how quickly a fix will be released assuming I have a "network down" condition. --- Jeremy Porter, Freeside Communications, Inc. jerry@fc.net PO BOX 80315 Austin, Tx 78708 | 1-800-968-8750 | 512-458-9810 http://www.fc.net
Yes, you can, but you have to do it under the table and via direct contacts. And a bottle of cask strength single malt will help. ;-)
You know, I find it hard to think of this as a feature - especially given the number of times the "quick hack" broke something else. And it's always missing the next release of the software. Well, then you obviously never Really Needed It. ;-) Yes, of course it's going to break something. If you want it without the bureaucracy, then you get it without the bureaucracy. Or the testing. Or the (damn slow) release train. So if you think that the back door is a bug, please don't use it. It takes an Act of God to get Bay to release a fix - but it works when they release it, and it works in the next full release too. The front door at cisco does work for bug fixes. And it's probably about the same Act Of God to get a release. Choose the door that you prefer. ;-) Now, if your complaint is about the bureaucracy that causes both of these organizations to be geologically slow, well, what can I say... I don't work there anymore. ;-) Tony
It takes an Act of God to get Bay to release a fix - but it works when they release it, and it works in the next full release too.
Well, not wanting to speak for God but.... Where ISP's are concerned, most have my email address and we do try to respond quickly when we hear about a problem (whether it be a bug or needed feature). As always, there's more work to do ;-) Jeff P.S. We do appreciate the kind words about the quality of the code.
On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:43:01 -0400, jburgan@baynetworks.com writes:
It takes an Act of God to get Bay to release a fix - but it works when they release it, and it works in the next full release too.
Well, not wanting to speak for God but....
Where ISP's are concerned, most have my email address and we do try to respond quickly when we hear about a problem (whether it be a bug or needed feature). As always, there's more work to do ;-)
Jeff
P.S. We do appreciate the kind words about the quality of the code.
I can vouch for Jeff on that. He and Marten Terpstra have heard from me more than they would probably like to over the last month. Jeff even called me on a Saturday morning to talk about some problems we were having and help me get them fixed. As ISPs, I think we are all fortunate in that the router vendors realize there's LOTS of money to be made in Internet. I would imagine that most router vendors are this responsive to their ISP customers. If they aren't, they probably won't have those customers for long. -Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------- * Jon Green * Wide-Area Networking Technician * * jon@netINS.net * Iowa Network Services, Inc. * * Finger for Geek Code/PGP * 312 8th Street, Suite 730 * * #include "std_disclaimer.h" * Des Moines, IA 50309 * -------------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (6)
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Jeffrey Burgan -
Jeremy Porter -
Joe Rhett -
Jon Green -
Kent W. England -
Tony Li