In article <103014.205135.1508@avi.netaxs.com> John wrote: : The problem is that the "government" does not have large purchasing power : compared to the commercial side of the house. The government doesn't buy in : bulk, doesn't buy often and usually selects the lowest cost. Vendors design : equipment/services for the customers who will buy it. The majority of those : customers are revenue driven commercial entities that have always questioned : the need to pay for any additional security. In the past, "security" has : never been an easy sell to anyone when a cost was attached because it was : never perceived to have the potential to bring in additional revenue and : because those who were aware of security breaches of substance would not : acknowledge them (this goes for government and industry). And sadly there : are some vendors who are so big or have such a large share of their market : space, that they just do what they want regardless. : John S. Maddaus I really can't agree... 2 years ago you'd be laughed at for a $10k/mo order, especially if you wanted non-standard services or terms. Today that gets any of the larger providers to stand up and pay severe attention, especially with the financial questions lingering over the space that have destroyed a lot of the "you must buy from us" clout in the minds of the buyers. Avi