Oh, come on. You must not monitor NANOG that much. Otherwise, you would know that if I was flaming, anyone with a bell*.* address would be in a burn ward. I was just making a simple observation. Can I help it if every contact I've had, save one, with bell*.* has been a clueless, old-fart, union-so-you-can't-replace-him-her-with-someone-with-clue, wouldn't know a clue if it came up and bit them in the a$%@^$@%^ piece of %^&#%&^#?!??? who is sucking up oxygen from the script kiddies (who while I hate, may actually grow up some day and do something productive)??!!!??? Don't want to be associated with that stereotype? Get rid of 99% of your organization or go to work for someone else. BTW: I know from first hand experience. I had to leave a job at a bell*.* company because as a 19 y/o. I made the 20/30/40/50/60 y/o's nervous as far as their jobs were concerned. 'Nuff said. --- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Christian Kuhtz wrote:
John,
I disagree with Deron, albeit for different reasons. But I don't think the flame was neccessary.
Cheers, Chris
-- Christian Kuhtz <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck@gnu.org> -hm Sr. Architect, Engineering & Architecture, BellSouth.net, Atlanta, GA, U.S. "I speak for myself only."
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of John Fraizer Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 7:01 PM To: Deron J. Ringen Cc: Simon Lyall; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: RFC1918 addresses to permit in for VPN?
On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Deron J. Ringen wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Simon Lyall Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 3:03 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: RFC1918 addresses to permit in for VPN? . . One of the companies we work with has 192.168 address for some of the radius servers we have to talk to, we are directly connected to them so it's not a big pain but it's just so ugly. . . That makes perfect sense to me...there is not a better way to
protect a box
from a DOS/hack than to only give it a private address. Why expose a box to the outside world if there is not a need???
Deron,
Ever heard of an access list? Didn't think so.
Deron J. Ringen Sr. Network Architect BellSouth Internet Services
Typical.
--- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc
On Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 01:39:54AM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
Can I help it if every contact I've had, save one, with bell*.* has been a clueless, old-fart, union-so-you-can't-replace-him-her-with-someone-with-clue, wouldn't know a clue if it came up and bit them in the a$%@^$@%^ piece of %^&#%&^#?!??? who is sucking up oxygen from the script kiddies (who while I hate, may actually grow up some day and do something productive)??!!!???
I'm sure we've all had bad experiences with telcos from time to time, They're an easy target, and often worthy of the criticism we subject them to. But in all fairness, this is not the place to vent, especially given the quality of knowledge demonstrated by the BellSouth and Verizon GNI participants on this list and others. If Ameritech cuts some copper, disrupting someone's 56k DDS service into the CMH-IX, would you hold every single employee of theirs at gunpoint?
Don't want to be associated with that stereotype? Get rid of 99% of your organization or go to work for someone else.
That's just stooping low. On Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 02:39:39AM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
From: Wants to keep their Job <xxxx@bellsouth.net>
Hmmm, wonder who this could be! On Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 03:26:37AM -0500, John Fraizer wrote:
From: Wants to keep his job <spork@xxxx.com> [...] (name deleted)
And again! Nice job of protecting the innocent, chief. Note to self, do not send private mail to John Fraizer, unless you want it forwarded to NANOG as originating from <asr@xxxxxxx.net> or <xxx@latency.net>... My $0.02, -adam
Adam Rothschild wrote:
If Ameritech cuts some copper, disrupting someone's 56k DDS service into the CMH-IX, would you hold every single employee of theirs at gunpoint?
Nah. There are plenty of other reasons to do that. </HUMOR> for the sarcasm impaired. I will, however, say that I have been in contact with some -- not many, but some -- Ameritech employees who are well-clued. Some of 'em work in Team Data, some of 'em work in Hi-Cap. They are out there, and I'm sure they exist at Bellsouth and the other RBOBs[0]. That said, I can point to plenty of horror stories about Ameritech. My favorite was when suddenly we[1] started nasty calls from customers thinking we'd closed up and left town - people dialed into us and got a message that the lines had been disconnected. That was Saturday morning, and I spent much of the afternoon telilng Ameritech "get up off of your asses and do something; don't tell me there will be a 24-hour turnaround... we're an ISP, and you've cut off one of our main sources of revenue. No, I don't care what you have to do, if you can't personally get repair out there, you go talk to someone who can." Nothing fancy here, folks. It was, at the time, 30 POTS lines in a hunt group. (This was before 56K came into being and everyone started going to PRIs)
Don't want to be associated with that stereotype? Get rid of 99% of your organization or go to work for someone else.
That's just stooping low.
Although it probably shouldn't have been said here, my bet is that a lot of people have felt that way once in a while. It's like being a cop (and I have friends who are police officers, and they'll tell you this too). They do lots of useful, necessary work, but you ask them how many people thank them for the good things they do on a daily basis, and the answer *will* be very close to zero - and one slip-up, and whatever good you might have done will be forgotten quickly. With RBOBs, it's not necessarily the individual employees we should point our ire at, but the organizations as a whole. Individual employees tend to be very convenient targets for venting, but quite often they are not *appropriate* targets. Cheers, and happy GNU Year, SJS. [0] Regional Bell Operating BORG [1] "we" - myself and the ISP I used to work for. -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, Ohio
participants (3)
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Adam Rothschild -
John Fraizer -
Steve Sobol