Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX
What are your thoughts on why a network would join a non-profit IX, but not a neutral, for-profit IX? Let's assume that traffic levels are similar. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard. On 12/20/2018 1:31 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
What are your thoughts on why a network would join a non-profit IX, but not a neutral, for-profit IX? Let's assume that traffic levels are similar.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
-- ================================================================ Aaron Wendel Chief Technical Officer Wholesale Internet, Inc. (AS 32097) (816)550-9030 http://www.wholesaleinternet.com ================================================================
On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote:
Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard.
Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to how the hospitals are here in Boise. The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, price gouging, etc. Their care can be pretty meh, esp since they bought up all the little independent clinics (yay, ER pricing for a basic family clinic visit). The for-profit smaller clinics and hospitals run a pretty tight ship, better value for their money, service is very good, and compete with one another for who has the best service. People think they are getting 'better' because they are going to a place that is supposed to be run to benefit people over profit, but alas, you'd be very very wrong. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
The other point to consider is that a NFP can justify more locations and offer services (such as extended reach) that don’t have the same profit margins or ROI as for-profits. This often leads to greater value to those with smaller networks and fewer customers allowing them to grow and expand without increased aggregation or transit costs. This in-turn leads to a richer array of providers and chips away at the monopolies in niche markets. The NFP IXP I work for focuses on providing value to the broader community and the Internet as a whole - especially somewhere like Australia which has unique constraints. Additionally, “Neutral” and For-Profit doesn’t always compute in my mind, there will always be commercial alliances that lead to not-total neutrality. When a NFP is owned by it’s members there has to be 100% transparency in organisational decisions around member funds and resources which ensures accountability reliability. - Tim
On 21 Dec 2018, at 3:58 am, Brielle Bruns <bruns@2mbit.com> wrote:
On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote:
Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard.
Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to how the hospitals are here in Boise.
The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, price gouging, etc. Their care can be pretty meh, esp since they bought up all the little independent clinics (yay, ER pricing for a basic family clinic visit).
The for-profit smaller clinics and hospitals run a pretty tight ship, better value for their money, service is very good, and compete with one another for who has the best service.
People think they are getting 'better' because they are going to a place that is supposed to be run to benefit people over profit, but alas, you'd be very very wrong. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
As far as neutral, I meant separate from the datacenters in which they're housed. People in NA seem to think there are only two kinds of IXes, Equinix, DRT, Coresite types and NWAX, SIX, MICE types. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Raphael" <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> To: "NANOG Mailing List" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:39:42 PM Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX The other point to consider is that a NFP can justify more locations and offer services (such as extended reach) that don’t have the same profit margins or ROI as for-profits. This often leads to greater value to those with smaller networks and fewer customers allowing them to grow and expand without increased aggregation or transit costs. This in-turn leads to a richer array of providers and chips away at the monopolies in niche markets. The NFP IXP I work for focuses on providing value to the broader community and the Internet as a whole - especially somewhere like Australia which has unique constraints. Additionally, “Neutral” and For-Profit doesn’t always compute in my mind, there will always be commercial alliances that lead to not-total neutrality. When a NFP is owned by it’s members there has to be 100% transparency in organisational decisions around member funds and resources which ensures accountability reliability. - Tim
On 21 Dec 2018, at 3:58 am, Brielle Bruns <bruns@2mbit.com> wrote:
On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote:
Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard.
Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to how the hospitals are here in Boise.
The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, price gouging, etc. Their care can be pretty meh, esp since they bought up all the little independent clinics (yay, ER pricing for a basic family clinic visit).
The for-profit smaller clinics and hospitals run a pretty tight ship, better value for their money, service is very good, and compete with one another for who has the best service.
People think they are getting 'better' because they are going to a place that is supposed to be run to benefit people over profit, but alas, you'd be very very wrong. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org
On Thu, 20 Dec 2018 at 13:44, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
What are your thoughts on why a network would join a non-profit IX, but not a neutral, for-profit IX? Let's assume that traffic levels are similar.
But are traffic levels actually similar? Most areas have one or the other dominating the field, so, which one you join usually depends on other (more pressing) factors. C.
participants (5)
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Aaron -
Brielle Bruns -
Constantine A. Murenin -
Mike Hammett -
Tim Raphael