I haven't seen much traffic on this list about Mikrotik or RouterOS, but I thought it was worth a shot as a last ditch effort to get this going. Does anyone know of a solution to connect a POS OC-3 to a router running Mikrotik's RouterOS? I have searched google extensively with varying phrases and nothing helpful comes out of it. -- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. alan@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405
On 7/3/10 10:43 AM, Alan Bryant wrote:
I haven't seen much traffic on this list about Mikrotik or RouterOS, but I thought it was worth a shot as a last ditch effort to get this going.
Does anyone know of a solution to connect a POS OC-3 to a router running Mikrotik's RouterOS? I have searched google extensively with varying phrases and nothing helpful comes out of it.
Maybe this? It's ATM though. http://www.iphase.com/products/product.cfm/PCI/198 ~Seth
Alan Bryant wrote:
I haven't seen much traffic on this list about Mikrotik or RouterOS, but I thought it was worth a shot as a last ditch effort to get this going.
Does anyone know of a solution to connect a POS OC-3 to a router running Mikrotik's RouterOS? I have searched google extensively with varying phrases and nothing helpful comes out of it.
Mikrotik is great at lower end stuff where you have ethernet interfaces. Real POS OC-3 however, ain't in it's repertory and would not be what I would choose to route at those interfaces/speeds. However, if you must 'connect mikrotik to oc-3', you might as well find yourself a cisco router of some kind with a PA-POS-OC3 card and use it as a simple modem. Of course, for the price, you might as well just let the cisco do what you're planning on doing with the Mikrotik and get orders of magnitude of functionality and stability out of it in the process.
On 7/3/10 12:22 PM, Mike wrote:
Alan Bryant wrote:
I haven't seen much traffic on this list about Mikrotik or RouterOS, but I thought it was worth a shot as a last ditch effort to get this going.
Does anyone know of a solution to connect a POS OC-3 to a router running Mikrotik's RouterOS? I have searched google extensively with varying phrases and nothing helpful comes out of it.
Mikrotik is great at lower end stuff where you have ethernet interfaces. Real POS OC-3 however, ain't in it's repertory and would not be what I would choose to route at those interfaces/speeds. However, if you must 'connect mikrotik to oc-3', you might as well find yourself a cisco router of some kind with a PA-POS-OC3 card and use it as a simple modem. Of course, for the price, you might as well just let the cisco do what you're planning on doing with the Mikrotik and get orders of magnitude of functionality and stability out of it in the process.
That's what I was going to say. ;) Once you reach SONET land you're no longer playing in the "everything is Ethernet" playground that they specializes in. I would say that you've outgrown your Mikrotik routers if you need SONET interfaces and it's time to forklift into a Cisco or Juniper. ~Seth
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Mike <mike-nanog@tiedyenetworks.com> wrote:
Mikrotik is great at lower end stuff where you have ethernet interfaces. Real POS OC-3 however, ain't in it's repertory and would not be what I would choose to route at those interfaces/speeds. However, if you must 'connect mikrotik to oc-3', you might as well find yourself a cisco router of some kind with a PA-POS-OC3 card and use it as a simple modem. Of course, for the price, you might as well just let the cisco do what you're planning on doing with the Mikrotik and get orders of magnitude of functionality and stability out of it in the process.
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately, we just don't have it in the budget for Cisco or Juniper hardware at this time. I was hoping there would be something available for Mikrotik, but I pretty much already knew the answer. While I know a lot of you guys would recommend Cisco or Juniper over anything else, and I also know that you guys probably think if you're needing an OC-3, it's time to invest in the big boys. However, I'm not the one who makes the final say on purchases. So, with all that being said, is there anyone who has any thoughts on ImageStream's products? They have a POS OC-3 card, and the price appears to be considerably lower for the router anyway, not necessarily the card, though. I'm just trying to see what options there are and make the decision off of that. If Cisco or Juniper is the only way, then so be it. I just want to be sure. -- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. alan@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405
Mike, Check out http://www.usedcisco.com they have some good prices. -- Christopher Young InterMetro Communications NOC Department imcnoc@intermetro.net 866-4IMCNOC, (866) 446-2662 805-433-8000 Main 805-433-0050 Direct 805-433-2589 Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Alan Bryant <alan@gtekcommunications.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 14:45:26 To: Mike<mike-nanog@tiedyenetworks.com> Cc: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Mikrotik & OC-3 Connection On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Mike <mike-nanog@tiedyenetworks.com> wrote:
Mikrotik is great at lower end stuff where you have ethernet interfaces. Real POS OC-3 however, ain't in it's repertory and would not be what I would choose to route at those interfaces/speeds. However, if you must 'connect mikrotik to oc-3', you might as well find yourself a cisco router of some kind with a PA-POS-OC3 card and use it as a simple modem. Of course, for the price, you might as well just let the cisco do what you're planning on doing with the Mikrotik and get orders of magnitude of functionality and stability out of it in the process.
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately, we just don't have it in the budget for Cisco or Juniper hardware at this time. I was hoping there would be something available for Mikrotik, but I pretty much already knew the answer. While I know a lot of you guys would recommend Cisco or Juniper over anything else, and I also know that you guys probably think if you're needing an OC-3, it's time to invest in the big boys. However, I'm not the one who makes the final say on purchases. So, with all that being said, is there anyone who has any thoughts on ImageStream's products? They have a POS OC-3 card, and the price appears to be considerably lower for the router anyway, not necessarily the card, though. I'm just trying to see what options there are and make the decision off of that. If Cisco or Juniper is the only way, then so be it. I just want to be sure. -- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. alan@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405
Alan Bryant wrote:
I'm just trying to see what options there are and make the decision off of that. If Cisco or Juniper is the only way, then so be it. I just want to be sure.
The real issue is that these legacy telco interfaces are just expensive, straight up, and being forced to use these specialized interfaces for your IP connectivity just drives your costs up for no real gain. I bet what you would really love is just a simple ethernet handoff but of course no provider in your area probabbly makes that available. So you get collared into these expensive interfaces that force you to just buy more when you need more connectivity, as opposed to ethernet which could easilly grow to 1000mbps without needing $$$ I/O cards every 155mbps along the way (and loop charges and hassle and pain, etc). On the good news front, there's lots of capable cisco hardware out there you can take multiple interfaces types on, for pretty cheap especially if you look at "refurbished" gear. Before you run off and make a purchase decision, most of these cisco resellers can really help you decide on the right platform (thats their value add), so if you think you might wind up with an OC3 and 8t1s for example they can help you figure out what NPE (cpu) you need and ram and ios version and such.
I really wouldn't use the word legacy to describe SONET and OC-3's. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: Mike [mailto:mike-nanog@tiedyenetworks.com] Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 4:11 PM To: Alan Bryant Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Mikrotik & OC-3 Connection Alan Bryant wrote:
I'm just trying to see what options there are and make the decision off of that. If Cisco or Juniper is the only way, then so be it. I just want to be sure.
The real issue is that these legacy telco interfaces are just expensive, straight up, and being forced to use these specialized interfaces for your IP connectivity just drives your costs up for no real gain. I bet what you would really love is just a simple ethernet handoff but of course no provider in your area probabbly makes that available. So you get collared into these expensive interfaces that force you to just buy more when you need more connectivity, as opposed to ethernet which could easilly grow to 1000mbps without needing $$$ I/O cards every 155mbps along the way (and loop charges and hassle and pain, etc). On the good news front, there's lots of capable cisco hardware out there you can take multiple interfaces types on, for pretty cheap especially if you look at "refurbished" gear. Before you run off and make a purchase decision, most of these cisco resellers can really help you decide on the right platform (thats their value add), so if you think you might wind up with an OC3 and 8t1s for example they can help you figure out what NPE (cpu) you need and ram and ios version and such.
On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 07:32:48PM -0400, Scott Berkman wrote:
I really wouldn't use the word legacy to describe SONET and OC-3's.
It's around 25 years old (work started in 1985, first standards published in 1988) and we now have a ratified 100G Ethernet standard. Much of it is being used to transport subrate links, some of which are derived from even older transport standards. If not legacy, what word WOULD you use? --msa
On 7/3/2010 17:12, Majdi S. Abbas wrote:
On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 07:32:48PM -0400, Scott Berkman wrote:
I really wouldn't use the word legacy to describe SONET and OC-3's.
It's around 25 years old (work started in 1985, first standards published in 1988) and we now have a ratified 100G Ethernet standard.
Much of it is being used to transport subrate links, some of which are derived from even older transport standards.
If not legacy, what word WOULD you use?
I'd start calling it legacy when it's as easy to order from your telco as X.25 would be. I still see Ethernet circuits delivered via OC-3/STM-1 today with an Overture. If you're throwing OC-3 into the legacy bin you might as well call OC-192 and OC-768 legacy as well. Big deal if the standard is old, apparently it's still useful enough that there isn't a replacement yet. ~Seth
Ok, scenario time. I've found a 7206VXR\NPE-G1 w/ 256MB RAM. It has the 3 onboard GigE ports and a PA-POS-1OC3 card in it that should be fine for our OC-3 connection. We need a total of 5 Ethernet ports, not necessarily all GigE. I found this card, PA-2FE-TX that would give us 2 10/100 ports. Everything that I have seen says this should work with the above router. Can anyone confirm this for me? We plan on doing BGP on the WAN side and BGP or OSPF on the LAN side. I'm assuming that I will need to upgrade the RAM on this router. Would I need to upgrade it all the way to the 1GB that it can take? From what i can tell it is not that expensive for the RAM, so we might as well. Will the following IOS version allow us to do all of the above? Cisco IOS Software, 7200 Software (C7200-IS-M), Version 12.4(12), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1) I'm finding it difficult to figure out the IOS versions and what is compatible from Cisco's website. Is this the highest IOS that this router can run? Thank you all for all the incredible help. Hopefully I will be able to repay the community at some point. On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Seth Mattinen <sethm@rollernet.us> wrote:
On 7/3/2010 17:12, Majdi S. Abbas wrote:
On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 07:32:48PM -0400, Scott Berkman wrote:
I really wouldn't use the word legacy to describe SONET and OC-3's.
It's around 25 years old (work started in 1985, first standards published in 1988) and we now have a ratified 100G Ethernet standard.
Much of it is being used to transport subrate links, some of which are derived from even older transport standards.
If not legacy, what word WOULD you use?
I'd start calling it legacy when it's as easy to order from your telco as X.25 would be. I still see Ethernet circuits delivered via OC-3/STM-1 today with an Overture. If you're throwing OC-3 into the legacy bin you might as well call OC-192 and OC-768 legacy as well. Big deal if the standard is old, apparently it's still useful enough that there isn't a replacement yet.
~Seth
-- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. alan@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405
Do you plan on getting full BGP routes from your upstream? If so, go with 1Gb of ram on the NPE G1. I believe that IOS 12.4.25c is the latest version for the 7200VXR series. It's stable, been running it for quite some time. Depending on what you will be doing with this router, will depend on what feature set you'll want. I typically use the Service Provider IOS with IPSEC, 3DES and Lawful Intercept. On 7/3/2010 7:51 PM, Alan Bryant wrote:
Ok, scenario time.
I've found a 7206VXR\NPE-G1 w/ 256MB RAM.
It has the 3 onboard GigE ports and a PA-POS-1OC3 card in it that should be fine for our OC-3 connection.
We need a total of 5 Ethernet ports, not necessarily all GigE. I found this card, PA-2FE-TX that would give us 2 10/100 ports. Everything that I have seen says this should work with the above router. Can anyone confirm this for me?
We plan on doing BGP on the WAN side and BGP or OSPF on the LAN side. I'm assuming that I will need to upgrade the RAM on this router. Would I need to upgrade it all the way to the 1GB that it can take? From what i can tell it is not that expensive for the RAM, so we might as well.
Will the following IOS version allow us to do all of the above? Cisco IOS Software, 7200 Software (C7200-IS-M), Version 12.4(12), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
I'm finding it difficult to figure out the IOS versions and what is compatible from Cisco's website. Is this the highest IOS that this router can run?
Thank you all for all the incredible help. Hopefully I will be able to repay the community at some point.
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Seth Mattinen<sethm@rollernet.us> wrote:
On 7/3/2010 17:12, Majdi S. Abbas wrote:
On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 07:32:48PM -0400, Scott Berkman wrote:
I really wouldn't use the word legacy to describe SONET and OC-3's.
It's around 25 years old (work started in 1985, first standards published in 1988) and we now have a ratified 100G Ethernet standard.
Much of it is being used to transport subrate links, some of which are derived from even older transport standards.
If not legacy, what word WOULD you use?
I'd start calling it legacy when it's as easy to order from your telco as X.25 would be. I still see Ethernet circuits delivered via OC-3/STM-1 today with an Overture. If you're throwing OC-3 into the legacy bin you might as well call OC-192 and OC-768 legacy as well. Big deal if the standard is old, apparently it's still useful enough that there isn't a replacement yet.
~Seth
-- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 chris@uplogon.com
I believe that IOS 12.4.25c is the latest version for the 7200VXR series. It's stable, been running it for quite some time. Depending on what you will be doing with this router, will depend on what feature set you'll want. I typically use the Service Provider IOS with IPSEC, 3DES and Lawful Intercept.
We plan on doing BGP on the WAN side and BGP or OSPF on the LAN side. I'm assuming that I will need to upgrade the RAM on this router.
Would
The 15.0 series is available for the 7200VXR. However, unless I'm missing something, note that the Service Provider version doesn't have OSPFv3 for IPv6. You have to go with the Advanced IP series for that. Ray -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
12.4 Service provider has IPv6 and OSPFv3. On 7/3/2010 8:09 PM, Ray Burkholder wrote:
I believe that IOS 12.4.25c is the latest version for the 7200VXR series. It's stable, been running it for quite some time. Depending on what you will be doing with this router, will depend on what feature set you'll want. I typically use the Service Provider IOS with IPSEC, 3DES and Lawful Intercept.
We plan on doing BGP on the WAN side and BGP or OSPF on the LAN side. I'm assuming that I will need to upgrade the RAM on this router.
Would
The 15.0 series is available for the 7200VXR. However, unless I'm missing something, note that the Service Provider version doesn't have OSPFv3 for IPv6. You have to go with the Advanced IP series for that.
Ray
-- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 chris@uplogon.com
On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 05:12:14PM -0700, Majdi S. Abbas wrote:
On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 07:32:48PM -0400, Scott Berkman wrote:
I really wouldn't use the word legacy to describe SONET and OC-3's.
It's around 25 years old (work started in 1985, first standards published in 1988) and we now have a ratified 100G Ethernet standard.
Much of it is being used to transport subrate links, some of which are derived from even older transport standards.
If not legacy, what word WOULD you use?
Legacy (adj.): A pejorative term used in the computer industry meaning "it works". - Matt -- Apparently if you are aware that the From: field can be, and often is, forged, you are overqualified to write antivirus software. -- Jamie Zawinski, http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/virus.html
I really wouldn't use the word legacy to describe SONET and OC-3's. If not legacy, what word WOULD you use?
widely deployed and used, and if your device can't deal then it's no deal. i am not overly fond of sonet, but i can't always choose the media over which i have to run packets. randy
On 2010-07-03 12:45, Alan Bryant wrote:
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Mike<mike-nanog@tiedyenetworks.com> wrote:
Mikrotik is great at lower end stuff where you have ethernet interfaces. Real POS OC-3 however, ain't in it's repertory and would not be what I would choose to route at those interfaces/speeds. However, if you must 'connect mikrotik to oc-3', you might as well find yourself a cisco router of some kind with a PA-POS-OC3 card and use it as a simple modem. Of course, for the price, you might as well just let the cisco do what you're planning on doing with the Mikrotik and get orders of magnitude of functionality and stability out of it in the process.
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately, we just don't have it in the budget for Cisco or Juniper hardware at this time. I was hoping there would be something available for Mikrotik, but I pretty much already knew the answer.
oc-3 pos or atm is riding the tail end of the technology curve, there's not a lot of demand for new products using old technology and no downward pressure on price other than that no-one cares (large capex opportunity) any more and that they are readily available on the secondary market.
While I know a lot of you guys would recommend Cisco or Juniper over anything else, and I also know that you guys probably think if you're needing an OC-3, it's time to invest in the big boys.
actually buying the thing is only one dimension of the cost of ownership. in this case the price is also a signal that perhaps the other options make more sense, metro-e eosdh etc. of course if you need channelized atm for some reason you may have other feature requirements that are the decision point.
However, I'm not the one who makes the final say on purchases. So, with all that being said, is there anyone who has any thoughts on ImageStream's products? They have a POS OC-3 card, and the price appears to be considerably lower for the router anyway, not necessarily the card, though.
I'm just trying to see what options there are and make the decision off of that. If Cisco or Juniper is the only way, then so be it. I just want to be sure.
On Sat, 2010-07-03 at 12:22 -0700, Mike wrote: > Mikrotik is great at lower end stuff where you have ethernet interfaces. > Real POS OC-3 however, ain't in it's repertory and would not be what I > would choose to route at those interfaces/speeds. While I agree that Mikrotik and OC-3 don't go together, I don't know why you would suppose that it can't route at that speed. It's a Linux kernel and given the right hardware, can easily handle that much speed. > However, if you must > 'connect mikrotik to oc-3', you might as well find yourself a cisco > router of some kind with a PA-POS-OC3 card and use it as a simple modem. Or ImageStream for about 1/2 (or better) of the price. > Of course, for the price, you might as well just let the cisco do what > you're planning on doing with the Mikrotik and get orders of magnitude > of functionality and stability out of it in the process. More functionality from a Cisco? You MUST be joking. MT (and ImageStream for that matter) can do WAY more than Cisco for a fraction of the price. Both will offer a much better firewall option, infinitely better QOS capability and is easily as good with dynamic routing (BGP, OSPF, etc.). What's more, you can have a spare on the shelf and STILL not spend as much money as you would for a Cisco device. -- ******************************************************************** * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * ********************************************************************
You can always use a Gig-E <-> OC3c/STM1 media converter. I've used one from RAD just to provide OC3c access speeds for some over Cisco 75xx routers which don't support POS interfaces. Works great. Tim McKee On Sat, 2010-07-03 at 16:07 -0500, Butch Evans wrote:
On Sat, 2010-07-03 at 12:22 -0700, Mike wrote: > Mikrotik is great at lower end stuff where you have ethernet interfaces. > Real POS OC-3 however, ain't in it's repertory and would not be what I > would choose to route at those interfaces/speeds.
While I agree that Mikrotik and OC-3 don't go together, I don't know why you would suppose that it can't route at that speed. It's a Linux kernel and given the right hardware, can easily handle that much speed.
> However, if you must > 'connect mikrotik to oc-3', you might as well find yourself a cisco > router of some kind with a PA-POS-OC3 card and use it as a simple modem.
Or ImageStream for about 1/2 (or better) of the price.
> Of course, for the price, you might as well just let the cisco do what > you're planning on doing with the Mikrotik and get orders of magnitude > of functionality and stability out of it in the process.
More functionality from a Cisco? You MUST be joking. MT (and ImageStream for that matter) can do WAY more than Cisco for a fraction of the price. Both will offer a much better firewall option, infinitely better QOS capability and is easily as good with dynamic routing (BGP, OSPF, etc.). What's more, you can have a spare on the shelf and STILL not spend as much money as you would for a Cisco device.
-- ******************************************************************** * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * ********************************************************************
On Sat, 3 Jul 2010, Alan Bryant wrote:
Does anyone know of a solution to connect a POS OC-3 to a router running Mikrotik's RouterOS? I have searched google extensively with varying phrases and nothing helpful comes out of it.
I don't know much about Mikrotik, but there are OC-3 interfaces you can put in a regular pc: http://www.tmcnet.com/voip/0808/telesoft-technologies-stm-1-oc-3-pci-express... http://oem.imagestream.com/PCI_Card_Overview.html (the 1104 does POS/OC3 if I read it correctly). There seems to be others, last I checked though these cards were in the USD4000-5000 range or so, so it was cheaper to buy a used 7200/NPE-300 and PA-POS/PA-GE. If someone knows and has good experience of a POS card (pci or pci-e) that works well in Linux (2.6.32 preferrably) I'm very interested.
If your routing platform doesn't have POS OC-3, you can use a converter to map Ethernet services to it and keep using the platform you've been using. You lose a little on efficiency and failure detection, but turning BFD on might help: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Routing/BFD I've worked with converters from a local industry and I don't think they ship worldwide; in the US I would take at look at RAD, Transition Networks, Allied Telesis and probably some others. This is an issue not specific to Mikrotik; my experience with such a solution was with Cisco switch-routers that could do up to MPLS but had only Ethernet interfaces. Rubens On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Alan Bryant <alan@gtekcommunications.com> wrote:
I haven't seen much traffic on this list about Mikrotik or RouterOS, but I thought it was worth a shot as a last ditch effort to get this going.
Does anyone know of a solution to connect a POS OC-3 to a router running Mikrotik's RouterOS? I have searched google extensively with varying phrases and nothing helpful comes out of it.
-- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. alan@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405
participants (16)
-
Alan Bryant -
Butch Evans -
Chris Gotstein -
Christopher Young -
joel jaeggli -
Larry Sheldon -
Majdi S. Abbas -
Matthew Palmer -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Mike -
Randy Bush -
Ray Burkholder -
Rubens Kuhl -
Scott Berkman -
Seth Mattinen -
Tim McKee