Re: RBL turf wars (was: ABOVE.NET BLOCKING ORBZ!)
Check this out, I can't get to Orbz's website anymore (and I suspect you can't either):
We can't either. Attached is a letter from a customer forwarded to our upstream (another above.net victim/ISP). If Above.Net wants to shed customers like a duck sheds water these filters will surely have that effect. -- Roger Marquis Roble Systems Consulting http://www.roble.com/
I'm unable to access my primary spam filter subscription, www.orbz.org, thanks to some clueless filter-nazi at above.net. Can you add a route to orbz (205.231.149.0) through ###### (bypassing above.net)?
As you know ####### provides spam filtering services to its customers via orbz, orbl, ordb, and other dns subscription services. Above.net's un-announced and un-approved IP filters are impacting our services, customers, and cash-flow. I hope you and above.net are aware that these filters are causing financial hardship to ##########.
Longer-term, please let me know if you decide to open a worldcom co-lo. This is the second time we've been screwed by above.net (the first due to their blocking orbs.org) and we are preparing to move to sonic.net or another ISP to avoid these petty, unprofessional, and ongoing RBL turf battles.
traceroute to www.orbz.org (205.231.149.53), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets ... core1-main2-oc12.sjc1.above.net (208.185.175.253) 1.548 ms !H * * * * * ...
--On Friday, November 16, 2001 7:30 PM -0800 Roger Marquis <marquis@roble.com> wrote:
We can't either. Attached is a letter from a customer forwarded to our upstream (another above.net victim/ISP). If Above.Net wants to shed customers like a duck sheds water these filters will surely have that effect.
Point of clarification: RBL is a registered service mark of MAPS, refering to the Realtime Blackhole List. This has **nothing** to do with us. At All. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Margie Arbon Mail Abuse Prevention System, LLC margie@mail-abuse.org http://mail-abuse.org
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Margie Arbon wrote:
Point of clarification:
RBL is a registered service mark of MAPS, refering to the Realtime Blackhole List.
This has **nothing** to do with us. At All.
Correction: Other than the these two things: a) Paul Vixie is a cofounder, chairman and CEO of MAPS LLC and at same time CTO of MFN (parent of above.net) b) Dave Rand is a cofounder and executive director of MAPS LLC and at same time EVP of MFN. Don't get me wrong, I like MAPS and I think ORBS/MAPS flamewars are silly. (And certainly hoping I'm not starting one now). But a little bit of honesty never hurt anyone, and its a bit disingenious to say that there's absolutely nothing in common between Above/MFN and MAPS. -alex
... Correction: Other than the these two things:
a) Paul Vixie is a cofounder, chairman and CEO of MAPS LLC and at same time CTO of MFN (parent of above.net)
I have no operational or otherwise active role in MAPS and have not had such a role for quite some time. I am also no longer MFN's CTO; rather, I'm president of MFN's PAIX.Net subsidiary, which means among other things that I have absolutely nothing to do with Abovenet policy.
b) Dave Rand is a cofounder and executive director of MAPS LLC and at same time EVP of MFN.
Dave Rand resigned from MFN earlier this year.
Don't get me wrong, I like MAPS and I think ORBS/MAPS flamewars are silly. (And certainly hoping I'm not starting one now). But a little bit of honesty never hurt anyone, and its a bit disingenious to say that there's absolutely nothing in common between Above/MFN and MAPS.
There were nominal commonalities between the management teams of these organizations at various times in the past, but no interdependent relationship or shared goals or shared fate between them, *ever*. And today there are *no* commonalities between the company's management teams. I hope that's honest enough for you.
--On Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:15 AM -0500 Alex Pilosov <alex@pilosoft.com> wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Margie Arbon wrote:
Point of clarification:
RBL is a registered service mark of MAPS, refering to the Realtime Blackhole List.
This has **nothing** to do with us. At All.
Correction: Other than the these two things:
a) Paul Vixie is a cofounder, chairman and CEO of MAPS LLC and at same time CTO of MFN (parent of above.net)
Paul has zero involvement at MAPS. He hasn't had any involvement with MAPS for quite a while. AFAIK, he is President of PAIX, not CTO of MFN.
b) Dave Rand is a cofounder and executive director of MAPS LLC and at same time EVP of MFN.
Dave is the Executive Director of MAPS. He is no longer at MFN. Hasn't been for a quite a while.
Don't get me wrong, I like MAPS and I think ORBS/MAPS flamewars are silly. (And certainly hoping I'm not starting one now). But a little bit of honesty never hurt anyone, and its a bit disingenious to say that there's absolutely nothing in common between Above/MFN and MAPS.
I am never anything BUT painfully honest. There is nothing disingenuous about this at all. There is *no* relationship between the management of MAPS and that of above.net, MFN, PAIX or any other entity. Please check your facts before you question someone's integrity. -- We now return you to your regularly scheduled flame war. Margie
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Margie Arbon wrote:
I am never anything BUT painfully honest. There is nothing disingenuous about this at all. There is *no* relationship between the management of MAPS and that of above.net, MFN, PAIX or any other entity.
Well, the question is whether there HAS been a relationship and how that relationship still affects above.net policies. If any of the named relationships has affected the implementation of the above.net filtering policy then they're still valid as a reason for the policy still being in place. It's always easier to maintain status quo than it is to change something. The named persons might not have any formal involvement with above.net anymore, but I'd be surprised if they still didn't have any influence or "cast any shadows" within the company. I know several examples of this in "internet-Sweden" where some very influential persons in the past might not have a formal involvement anymore, but you still see their influence everywhere when it comes to how things are handled. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
--- Someone wrote:
Well, the question is whether there HAS been.... ..... If any of the named relationships has affected.... ...then they're still valid as a reason for.... The named persons might not have..... ....I'd be surprised if.... I know several examples of.... ...persons in the past might not have...
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...... Before this gets any further out of hand, I reiterate my vote for the creation of the nanog-i-hate-maps list. http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/2001-08/msg00561.html -Jim P. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com
On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:15:30AM -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
Correction: Other than the these two things:
a) Paul Vixie is a cofounder, chairman and CEO of MAPS LLC and at same time CTO of MFN (parent of above.net)
No, he's not.
b) Dave Rand is a cofounder and executive director of MAPS LLC and at same time EVP of MFN.
No, he's not.
Don't get me wrong, I like MAPS and I think ORBS/MAPS flamewars are silly. (And certainly hoping I'm not starting one now). But a little bit of honesty never hurt anyone, and its a bit disingenious to say that there's absolutely nothing in common between Above/MFN and MAPS.
No, there isn't. --msa
Oh the irony! People are pissed off that someone is censoring the censors! Go above.net! Go!!! They get my vote 100% J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Roger Marquis wrote:
Check this out, I can't get to Orbz's website anymore (and I suspect you can't either):
We can't either. Attached is a letter from a customer forwarded to our upstream (another above.net victim/ISP). If Above.Net wants to shed customers like a duck sheds water these filters will surely have that effect.
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (8)
-
Alex Pilosov -
Jim Popovitch -
Majdi S. Abbas -
Margie Arbon -
measl＠mfn.org -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Paul Vixie -
Roger Marquis