Jim, in a purely communist/fascist way, let me explicitly tell you once again. This is the NANOG list. The O is for "Operations." You know, ops. Operations. O.P.E.R.A.T.E. To work. Stuff. That works. Unlike you. Ehud ob nanog stuff: SPRINT's {broken} confederation stuff was screwing us up at Anaheim. It would record one flap at the border as 2-3 flaps (depending ;) in the core. That meant 2 real flaps = dampening. We finally got them to fix it... your mileage may vary. (fix = turn off) p.s. Read on if you want to chuckle lightly

---------- From: Jim Fleming[SMTP:JimFleming@unety.net.] Sent: Saturday, February 15, 1997 11:32 AM To: 'New Newdom' Subject: Behind the scenes...

For over 20 years I have been designing serious 1 online information systems. I was fortunate to 2

"Serious" information systems? I've never seen an information system crack a joke. In fact, they haven't even been called information systems but for the last ten years...

spend much of that time at AT&T Bell Laboratories as an employee and a consultant. I am proud of 3 the fact that I was able to help launch the Videotex 4 industry and that some of the technology that AT&T patented on my behalf was used in the early Prodigy systems.

You "help[ed] launch"? You mean you pushed a button? Did you launch or not launch? I helped launch the internet industry. My industry makes yours obsolete. Does this mean you have no credibility, oh, Father O' Obsolete VideoTex?

For the past couple of years, I have become more 5 involved in the behind the scenes activity of the Internet. Like many people, I have used the facilities 6

Behind the scenes? Which backroom cabal let you in? You mean THIS mailing list? Com-priv? Ietf? Isoc? Which of these open lists, open discussions, or closed contract negotiations make you think you are privy to ANY behind the scenes, as it were.

for many years without much concern for who handled the governance needed to keep the network moving in a positive direction that benefits all people on earth and does not discriminate and degenerate like many societies on earth.

The desire not to discriminate is not a goal of the Internet. Perhaps you are confusing 'The Internet' with 'The Constitution.'

I am disappointed to report that the behind the scenes 7 Thank you for sharing your feelings. Of course they hold zero weight. Facts and figures, my deluded comrade, not feelings.

Internet of 1997 looks more like a communist/fascist

"Looks more like"??? IS IT or IS IT NOT?

republic than the democratic system in the U.S. that helped to create the Internet. In my opinion, this is

Your opinion has Opinion.Credibility==0. See above under the section where I helped launch the Internet.

partly because a few individuals have been allowed to rise to positions of visibility and power without the normal checks and balances that are present in a democracy.

Normal checks and balances that are present in a democracy? *puff* *puff* You mean Waco? Ruby Ridge? Whitewater? No >10-round-weapons? No legalized pot despite voters' clear referenda? Amendment against flag desecration? Civil Forfeiture? War on drugs? Holding Noriega without trial after kidnapping him from his sovereign territory? Which of these is your deluded self hoping to aspire to turn the internet into?

We now have a situation where the so-called "leaders" ^^ We? Are you part of this back-scene stuff, this evil communist/fascist conspiracy?

of the Internet support people who run around "blacklisting" and denying service to people at the drop of a hat. We ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Outright lie. Not worth dignifying with response.

see the U.S. Government, via the NSF, funding people who are clearly the Internet equivalent of the mafia. We ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Valueless opinion. Not worth ...

see prominent Internet societies endorsing people who openly and publicly suggest that people's parents be "killed with fire axes". We see those groups claiming to have the support of the Whitehouse, which I doubt

White House is two words, both capitalized.

endorses such violence. The list goes on.

When I first observed this situation, I will admit that I 8 9 10 was naive. I assumed that society would see these 11 problems and quickly correct these situations. I am 12 disappointed to report that not only is this not happening, it is getting worse.

It appears that the only solution for rational adults ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You haven't identified a problem. You haven't identified ANY solutions. It's premature at this point to identify "the only solution" unless you have the brain of a cabbage or turnip.

(especially in the U.S.) is to turn and walk away. As this happens, the problem increases, because, what remains are these ego-maniac dictators who now infect

Egomania is one word. Egomaniac is a noun. Egomaniacal is the adjective you might use.

the young people launching their careers in the tele- communications industry. Some of these young people then become ISPs, capture the attention of the public, and continue to propogate a system that will clearly lead to large scale social problems around the world.

Sounds pretty capitalistic and free-market economy to me. Lead on.

Another solution is to create a new Internet that is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wait. You just told us "The only solution." Now you tell us "Another solution..." I think you're about 6% short of a 7% solution.

"rooted" in democratic governments that have served great countries like the U.S. for many years. It is somewhat ironic that such a new system would have to be created as an alternative to the dictators currently being funded by the U.S. taxpayers via NSF grants and non-profit, tax-avoiding, companies. The system would also have to be created in the face of wide-spread opposition from young people who have already been polluted to think that everything the U.S. does is not in their interest, except for their tuition and salaries paid via government grants.

Ah. So you "Old Person" know it all, but 'young people' (no stratification listed) know nothing. That's great, Jimmy.

To create a new Internet, new servers and networks are not required. What is required is democractic governance. Because I believe in the U.S. system 12 of democracy and I truely believe that 99.9% of 13 ^ ^^^^^^^

Truly has no E in it. Your beliefs have no foundation. Share facts and figures, not your BELIEF in things.

society wants to "do the right thing", I still have ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Read Locke. Read Milton. That which society DOES _IS_ the right thing. QED. Prima Facie. All that latin jazz. Go read. It's good for you. Reading Is Fun'amental.

hope that democratic societies will take a hard look behind the scenes of the Internet to see the "society" that is pulling the strings. I have faith that 14 the real society and real governments will soon step forward to cut the ties to the dictators and their societies. This will help to ensure that children

Real world, Jim Flaming. Jim Flaming, real world. When you have cleared dictators and their societies from the REAL WoRLD, you can then talk about it on the net. Maybe you can 'help launch' a new world.

and adults everywhere have a chance to enjoy the wonderful resources that the Internet can provide in a truely democratic Internet society (small s).

Thank you for your time...

*puff* "That's good shit, man." You used the word "I" 14 times. Maybe it's timey YOU spent less time on YOU and more time realizing you're a nutcase kook who has no clue about what a society is, what the internet is, how the world is, how things are run, and how to change them. It's called frustration. Live it.

-- Jim Fleming Unir Corporation

e-mail: JimFleming@unety.net JimFleming@unety.s0.g0 (EDNS/IPv8)

Ehud

The following should be attributed to Jim Fleming:

I am disappointed to report that the behind the scenes Internet of 1997 looks more like a communist/fascist

I personally think it looks more anarcho-feudal. No official hierarchy, except volunteers doing what they can. Some of them even make money.

republic than the democratic system in the U.S. that

Uh, no offense, but the U.S. I live in is a republic, not a democracy. So, anyway, thanks for a very amusing post. On a more related note, if I recall correctly, Sprint has lossened its prefix filtering, but Agis and somebody else have tightened theirs. Did we ever get details, or was I napping that week? Lee Lee Howard Internet Systems Engineer (703)208-5231 UUNet High-speed Install lhoward@uu.net Do I speak for UUNet? [No]