Re: FIBER CUT: Dallas to West Coast
On Wed, 29 August 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Brian Whalen wrote:
Routing around the problem, what a concept. More backup for the 2xt1 shop to contimue doing it..
I'm still awaiting the list of providers that never have a circuit go down. :-)
Every carrier has had a circuit go down. The difference is the carrier's response, in particular how well they keep their customers informed. On the other hand, there is a significant statistical difference between major carriers of service affecting cable cuts and the mean time to repair. Which might be somewhat of a surprise because the physical cuts are more or less evenly distributed among the carriers, on a pro-rata basis. Among "major" carriers (i.e. with more than 20,000 route miles active) Sprint has the fewest service affecting cable cuts AT&T is the best at keeping customer's informed
On 29 Aug 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Wed, 29 August 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Brian Whalen wrote:
Routing around the problem, what a concept. More backup for the 2xt1 shop to contimue doing it..
I'm still awaiting the list of providers that never have a circuit go down. :-)
Every carrier has had a circuit go down.
On that we agree.
The difference is the carrier's response, in particular how well they keep their customers informed.
That is certainly *a* point of differentiation, however if the goal of these "basement dual-homers" is to not suffer downtime due to the outage of a single provider(much like the organizations that "matter"), all the responsiveness in the world from a provider whose circuit to one of the "basement dual-homers" which has failed isn't going to prevent them from being down, is it?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On 29 Aug 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Wed, 29 August 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Brian Whalen wrote:
Routing around the problem, what a concept. More backup for the 2xt1 shop to contimue doing it..
I'm still awaiting the list of providers that never have a circuit go down. :-)
Every carrier has had a circuit go down.
On that we agree.
The difference is the carrier's response, in particular how well they keep their customers informed.
That is certainly *a* point of differentiation, however if the goal of these "basement dual-homers" is to not suffer downtime due to the outage of a single provider(much like the organizations that "matter"), all the responsiveness in the world from a provider whose circuit to one of the "basement dual-homers" which has failed isn't going to prevent them from being down, is it?
Patrick, it's all in being able to inform YOUR customers. When they call you, you can't tell them what's wrong because your upstream (doesn't know|won't tell you|lies to cover their a$$) it makes YOU look like an idiot. If you can at least tell them what's up and demonstrate that it's beyond your direct control, you're no longer the bad guy. --- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc
On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, John Fraizer wrote:
That is certainly *a* point of differentiation, however if the goal of these "basement dual-homers" is to not suffer downtime due to the outage of a single provider(much like the organizations that "matter"), all the responsiveness in the world from a provider whose circuit to one of the "basement dual-homers" which has failed isn't going to prevent them from being down, is it?
Patrick, it's all in being able to inform YOUR customers.
John, from a customer perspective it's all about staying UP.
Think about your last statement. If someone is homed to 2 different providers, and 1 circuit goes down, the other should keep them up. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Greenwell" <patrick@cybernothing.org> To: "Sean Donelan" <sean@donelan.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:00 PM Subject: Re: FIBER CUT: Dallas to West Coast
On 29 Aug 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Wed, 29 August 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Brian Whalen wrote:
Routing around the problem, what a concept. More backup for the
2xt1 shop
to contimue doing it..
I'm still awaiting the list of providers that never have a circuit go down. :-)
Every carrier has had a circuit go down.
On that we agree.
The difference is the carrier's response, in particular how well they keep their customers informed.
That is certainly *a* point of differentiation, however if the goal of these "basement dual-homers" is to not suffer downtime due to the outage of a single provider(much like the organizations that "matter"), all the responsiveness in the world from a provider whose circuit to one of the "basement dual-homers" which has failed isn't going to prevent them from being down, is it?
You always have to specify to the carrier that you want diversity. For longhaul, sometimes even big name providers will subcontract to another provider. For instance, you may get 1 OC-3 from MCI and another from Sprint, but both might be going through the same Qwest OC-192 from Denver to San Jose. I've seen it happen and it's always ugly for the buyer when someone backhoes it. You have to specify and sometimes pay more to be certain of your diversity. Greg -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:15 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: FIBER CUT: Dallas to West Coast Think about your last statement. If someone is homed to 2 different providers, and 1 circuit goes down, the other should keep them up. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Greenwell" <patrick@cybernothing.org> To: "Sean Donelan" <sean@donelan.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:00 PM Subject: Re: FIBER CUT: Dallas to West Coast
On 29 Aug 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Wed, 29 August 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Brian Whalen wrote:
Routing around the problem, what a concept. More backup for the
2xt1 shop
to contimue doing it..
I'm still awaiting the list of providers that never have a circuit go down. :-)
Every carrier has had a circuit go down.
On that we agree.
The difference is the carrier's response, in particular how well they keep their customers informed.
That is certainly *a* point of differentiation, however if the goal of these "basement dual-homers" is to not suffer downtime due to the outage of a single provider(much like the organizations that "matter"), all the responsiveness in the world from a provider whose circuit to one of the "basement dual-homers" which has failed isn't going to prevent them from being down, is it?
yup yup, agreed... Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Pendergrass" <greg@band-x.com> To: "Brian" <bri@sonicboom.org>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: RE: FIBER CUT: Dallas to West Coast
You always have to specify to the carrier that you want diversity. For longhaul, sometimes even big name providers will subcontract to another provider. For instance, you may get 1 OC-3 from MCI and another from
but both might be going through the same Qwest OC-192 from Denver to San Jose. I've seen it happen and it's always ugly for the buyer when someone backhoes it. You have to specify and sometimes pay more to be certain of your diversity.
Greg
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:15 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: FIBER CUT: Dallas to West Coast
Think about your last statement. If someone is homed to 2 different providers, and 1 circuit goes down, the other should keep them up.
Brian
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Greenwell" <patrick@cybernothing.org> To: "Sean Donelan" <sean@donelan.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:00 PM Subject: Re: FIBER CUT: Dallas to West Coast
On 29 Aug 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Wed, 29 August 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Brian Whalen wrote:
Routing around the problem, what a concept. More backup for the
2xt1 shop
to contimue doing it..
I'm still awaiting the list of providers that never have a circuit go down. :-)
Every carrier has had a circuit go down.
On that we agree.
The difference is the carrier's response, in particular how well they keep their customers informed.
That is certainly *a* point of differentiation, however if the goal of these "basement dual-homers" is to not suffer downtime due to the outage of a single provider(much like the organizations that "matter"), all the responsiveness in the world from a provider whose circuit to one of the "basement dual-homers" which has failed isn't going to
Sprint, prevent
them from being down, is it?
On 29 Aug 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Wed, 29 August 2001, Patrick Greenwell wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Brian Whalen wrote:
Routing around the problem, what a concept. More backup for the 2xt1 shop to contimue doing it..
I'm still awaiting the list of providers that never have a circuit go down. :-)
Every carrier has had a circuit go down. The difference is the carrier's response, in particular how well they keep their customers informed.
Like, don't lie to the (BGP) Customer. They generally have already researched the problem and will KNOW when you are. I'd rather hear a "we don't know yet" than have some first level NOC monkey make up some story filled with buzzwords he's heard from upper level NOC monkeys perviously or to have them blame Tier-1 Carrier-X when from the outside world, I can reach _ALL_ of Tier-1 Carrier-X's other customers served from the same POP. --- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc
participants (5)
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Brian -
Greg Pendergrass -
John Fraizer -
Patrick Greenwell -
Sean Donelan