Carrier Options in Hong Kong
Nanog, Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin. I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street. I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky. - Nanoguser99 Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo. My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo. On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
Looking glass pings from Lumen to my gear behind PCCW = 1ms, immediate handoff. Looking glass pings from Lumen -> Google (216.239.38.120), immediate handoff. Some CDNs\cloud are 30 ms away, like you said Tokyo or Singapore. My main concern is the eyeball networks. Is PCCW the main carrier for the eyeball networks there or do they all peer in country for the most part. Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 7:12 PM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote:
I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
PCCW / HKT are the main networks for eyeball HKT ASs feed into AS3491 which is the international arm, PCCW global if you will.
On Dec 17, 2021, at 14:05, nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Looking glass pings from Lumen to my gear behind PCCW = 1ms, immediate handoff. Looking glass pings from Lumen -> Google (216.239.38.120), immediate handoff. Some CDNs\cloud are 30 ms away, like you said Tokyo or Singapore.
My main concern is the eyeball networks. Is PCCW the main carrier for the eyeball networks there or do they all peer in country for the most part.
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 7:12 PM, Eric Dugas <edugas@unknowndevice.ca> wrote: I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote: Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
Colt is a good option if you’re seeking wavelengths. For transit we use a mix of the other carriers, pccw included but we go through the wholesale side and not hkt which is the domestic arm of pccw and they are ridiculously expensive.
On Dec 17, 2021, at 13:13, Eric Dugas via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote: Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
Eric, none of the carriers you mention in HK has local connection, other HK ISPs will route to US if they don’t peer with you. Currently we are using NTT and Telstra, which has good connectivity in Asia except mainland China. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+david=xtom.com@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Eric Dugas via NANOG Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 3:12 AM To: nanoguser99 <nanoguser99@protonmail.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo. My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo. On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: Nanog, Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin. I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street. I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky. - Nanoguser99 Sent with ProtonMail<https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
PCCW can be very competitive….. if you can find the right people and have the volume. They are a lot easier to deal with (vs Telstra/NTT) On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 06:09 David Guo via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Eric, none of the carriers you mention in HK has local connection, other HK ISPs will route to US if they don’t peer with you.
Currently we are using NTT and Telstra, which has good connectivity in Asia except mainland China.
*From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+david=xtom.com@nanog.org> * On Behalf Of *Eric Dugas via NANOG *Sent:* Saturday, December 18, 2021 3:12 AM *To:* nanoguser99 <nanoguser99@protonmail.com> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org *Subject:* Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong
I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
-- Mehmet +1-424-298-1903
Eric Dugas, I'm not seeing that, seems llike they do peer locally. These tests are Lumen but cogent was similar. I believe they peer locally with the Cogents\Lumens of the world. Looking at BGP.he.net AS9444 I found some HKT IPs and pinged from the Lumen looking glass ==== Hong Kong Telecommunications (HKT) Limited Target: 120.88.245.3 with 64 data bytes Success rate sent/received = (1/1) packets Round-Trip min/avg/max = 1ms/1ms/1ms AS38819 - HKT GPRS network HONGKONG CHINA Ping results for: 14.0.183.254 (14-0-183-254.static.pccw-hkt.com) Target: 14.0.183.254 with 64 data bytes Success rate sent/received = (1/1) packets Round-Trip min/avg/max = 2ms/2ms/2ms ===== The only remotely 'far' one was === Hong Kong Telecommunications (HKT) Limited Mass Internet traceroute to 1.65.190.108 (1.65.190.108), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 gi0-0-0-18.221.rcr11.b061570-1.hkg02.atlas.cogentco.com (66.250.250.193) 0.861 ms 0.879 ms 2 be3692.ccr21.hkg02.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.80.33) 1.079 ms 1.159 ms 3 be2414.rcr51.hkg01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.88.50) 1.772 ms 1.667 ms 4 pccw.hkg01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.140.66) 8.791 ms 3.131 ms 5 HundredGE0-3-0-0.br02.hkg08.pccwbtn.net (63.223.29.194) 3.234 ms 3.232 ms 6 csl.te0-1-0-14.br02.hkg08.pccwbtn.net (63.217.66.30) 3.290 ms 3.367 ms 7 * * 8 * * 9 * * 10 1-65-190-108.static.netvigator.com (1.65.190.108) 47.453 ms 47.441 ms === Cogent has similar results. If anyone has access to IPs in HK and doesn't mind helping please ping from cogent or lumen LG. Just want to ensure I'm not missing anything here in my analysis. Thanks - Nanoguser99 Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 3:08 AM, David Guo <david@xtom.com> wrote:
Eric, none of the carriers you mention in HK has local connection, other HK ISPs will route to US if they don’t peer with you.
Currently we are using NTT and Telstra, which has good connectivity in Asia except mainland China.
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+david=xtom.com@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Eric Dugas via NANOG Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2021 3:12 AM To: nanoguser99 <nanoguser99@protonmail.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Carrier Options in Hong Kong
I am in no way an expert in APAC but all of the IP carriers I have in NA are present in HK: Cogent, Tata, Telia, Zayo.
My guess is a good portion of the interconnections with other IP carriers, CDNs and such will be either in Singapore or Tokyo.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:56 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
I think the biggest difference between what the IP transit providers have described is that PCCW is also a major middle-mile and last-mile provider in Hong Kong. You'll find their 100Mbps to gigabit class end user service in apartments, condos and office buildings throughout the city. The non-HK based transit providers that would be in a top-40 CAIDA ASRANK size are generally *not* operators of last mile connectivity within the city. On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 2:54 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
Telstra Global (4637) are solid all around APAC On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 1:54 PM nanoguser99 via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Nanog,
Currently my organization uses PCCW which we pay through the nose for and I'm looking to cut them. This was put in place before me. I was informed that PCCW is "the carrier" in Hong Kong but based on my analysis I'm not sure that's the case. My analysis of carriers such as Lumen and Cogent put them on par with PCCW. Pings to random IPs in HK are reasonable fast on all of them, same with pings to cloud providers. Access to mainland is not a hard requirement but just to check they all had 300+ ms latency to known IPs in Shanghai and Tanjin.
I know some regions such as Korea or Dubai are monopolized where the wrong carrier takes you on a far away path to get a few blocks down the street.
I don't need anything special, just general DIA and good access to eyeballs and internet. I just wanted to see people's opinions here as APAC connectivity can be tricky.
- Nanoguser99
Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
participants (7)
-
David Guo -
Eric Dugas -
Eric Kuhnke -
JASON BOTHE -
Luca Salvatore -
Mehmet Akcin -
nanoguser99