We had the same thing finding a broker for a /24 pi in the RIPE region. Not all of the brokers have the size you want, eg a /20 when you need a /24. It ends up being between 2500 to 4000 euros depending on notary fees and if you already have a LIR agreement. Cheers -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: Nicholas Warren <nwarren@barryelectric.com> Datum: 14-07-2015 15:19 (GMT+01:00) Aan: nanog@nanog.org Onderwerp: 'gray' market IPv4 Where is one of these v4 markets that we can buy some IPv4 space from? I would prefer to have a place where we could see recent transactions, something along the lines of x amount of addresses for y amount of monies. Google search is failing me for some reason.. - Thanks, Nich
At 15:39 14/07/2015 +0200, Seth Mos wrote:
We had the same thing finding a broker for a /24 pi in the RIPE region. Not all of the brokers have the size you want, eg a /20 when you need a /24.
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4... https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/list... https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4... Enuff? -Hank
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> wrote:
At 15:39 14/07/2015 +0200, Seth Mos wrote:
We had the same thing finding a broker for a /24 pi in the RIPE region. Not all of the brokers have the size you want, eg a /20 when you need a /24.
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4...
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/list...
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4...
Enuff?
/personal opinion, self, etc. Should we enter them all into Yelp and start rating? That's too many to comparison shop. I'm being a little wry, I know who is naughty and nice. I've been tracking them all since the beginning. Not everyone else has. The potential for harm to network operators is moderate IMHO. Best, -M<
Thes folks (and I am not advertising or affiliated with them) publish a list of most recent transfer completed: http://ipv4marketgroup.com/broker-services/buy/ Justin --- Justin Wilson <j2sw@mtin.net> http://www.mtin.net Managed Services – xISP Solutions – Data Centers http://www.thebrotherswisp.com Podcast about xISP topics http://www.midwest-ix.com Peering – Transit – Internet Exchange
On Jul 14, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> wrote:
At 15:39 14/07/2015 +0200, Seth Mos wrote:
We had the same thing finding a broker for a /24 pi in the RIPE region. Not all of the brokers have the size you want, eg a /20 when you need a /24.
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4...
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/list...
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4...
Enuff?
/personal opinion, self, etc.
Should we enter them all into Yelp and start rating? That's too many to comparison shop. I'm being a little wry, I know who is naughty and nice. I've been tracking them all since the beginning. Not everyone else has. The potential for harm to network operators is moderate IMHO.
Best,
-M<
This list is actual sale prices, http://www.ipv4auctions.com/previous_auctions/ -- Matt On July 14, 2015 at 10:14:05 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN (lists@mtin.net) wrote: Thes folks (and I am not advertising or affiliated with them) publish a list of most recent transfer completed: http://ipv4marketgroup.com/broker-services/buy/ Justin --- Justin Wilson <j2sw@mtin.net> http://www.mtin.net Managed Services – xISP Solutions – Data Centers http://www.thebrotherswisp.com Podcast about xISP topics http://www.midwest-ix.com Peering – Transit – Internet Exchange
On Jul 14, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> wrote:
At 15:39 14/07/2015 +0200, Seth Mos wrote:
We had the same thing finding a broker for a /24 pi in the RIPE region. Not all of the brokers have the size you want, eg a /20 when you need a /24.
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4...
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/list...
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/ipv4...
Enuff?
/personal opinion, self, etc.
Should we enter them all into Yelp and start rating? That's too many to comparison shop. I'm being a little wry, I know who is naughty and nice. I've been tracking them all since the beginning. Not everyone else has. The potential for harm to network operators is moderate IMHO.
Best,
-M<
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Matt Kelly <mjkelly@gmail.com> wrote:
This list is actual sale prices, http://www.ipv4auctions.com/previous_auctions/
-- Matt
On July 14, 2015 at 10:14:05 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN (lists@mtin.net) wrote:
Thes folks (and I am not advertising or affiliated with them) publish a list of most recent transfer completed:
http://ipv4marketgroup.com/broker-services/buy/ vs. http://www.ipv4auctions.com/previous_auctions/ If you compare the pricing that both have made available you will find one is posting average prices exponentially higher than the other. When you trend the granular auction site data the auction numbers demonstrate a trend would expect, that smaller prefixes are more expensive since it takes a similar amount of effort to process a /24 as it does a /20. Dollar differences between a /24 unit and a /17 unit move the needle significantly. Based on both of both sets of public data its easy to conclude that auctions will work for at least small buyers of space if they're sophisticated enough to address the RIR issues. If you do decide to take the simple broker approach (not all are simple and not all approaches are suitable to simple brokers), use an RFP. And Yelp. :-) Best, -M<
Hello, folks! I have finished multiple (and 5th in RIPE) inter RIR subnet moves in RIPE region. We have moved multiple /21-/20 networks and awerage cost was about $10 per ip. On Tuesday, July 14, 2015, Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Matt Kelly <mjkelly@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
This list is actual sale prices, http://www.ipv4auctions.com/previous_auctions/
-- Matt
On July 14, 2015 at 10:14:05 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN (lists@mtin.net <javascript:;>) wrote:
Thes folks (and I am not advertising or affiliated with them) publish a list of most recent transfer completed:
http://ipv4marketgroup.com/broker-services/buy/ vs. http://www.ipv4auctions.com/previous_auctions/
If you compare the pricing that both have made available you will find one is posting average prices exponentially higher than the other. When you trend the granular auction site data the auction numbers demonstrate a trend would expect, that smaller prefixes are more expensive since it takes a similar amount of effort to process a /24 as it does a /20. Dollar differences between a /24 unit and a /17 unit move the needle significantly.
Based on both of both sets of public data its easy to conclude that auctions will work for at least small buyers of space if they're sophisticated enough to address the RIR issues. If you do decide to take the simple broker approach (not all are simple and not all approaches are suitable to simple brokers), use an RFP. And Yelp. :-)
Best,
-M<
-- Sincerely yours, Pavel Odintsov
Price varies significantly by prefix length, and somewhat by region. Regional variance may not be as much as it used to be. Lee On 7/14/15, 6:15 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Pavel Odintsov" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of pavel.odintsov@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, folks!
I have finished multiple (and 5th in RIPE) inter RIR subnet moves in RIPE region. We have moved multiple /21-/20 networks and awerage cost was about $10 per ip.
On Tuesday, July 14, 2015, Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Matt Kelly <mjkelly@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
This list is actual sale prices, http://www.ipv4auctions.com/previous_auctions/
-- Matt
On July 14, 2015 at 10:14:05 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN (lists@mtin.net <javascript:;>) wrote:
Thes folks (and I am not advertising or affiliated with them) publish a list of most recent transfer completed:
http://ipv4marketgroup.com/broker-services/buy/ vs. http://www.ipv4auctions.com/previous_auctions/
If you compare the pricing that both have made available you will find one is posting average prices exponentially higher than the other. When you trend the granular auction site data the auction numbers demonstrate a trend would expect, that smaller prefixes are more expensive since it takes a similar amount of effort to process a /24 as it does a /20. Dollar differences between a /24 unit and a /17 unit move the needle significantly.
Based on both of both sets of public data its easy to conclude that auctions will work for at least small buyers of space if they're sophisticated enough to address the RIR issues. If you do decide to take the simple broker approach (not all are simple and not all approaches are suitable to simple brokers), use an RFP. And Yelp. :-)
Best,
-M<
-- Sincerely yours, Pavel Odintsov
On 7/15/15 9:59 AM, Lee Howard wrote:
Price varies significantly by prefix length, and somewhat by region. Regional variance may not be as much as it used to be.
Does legacy space command a premium in this? What's the going rate to lease space (say a /20 or /19 for discussion)? -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice 727-214-2508 - Fax http://bryanfields.net
On 7/16/15, 12:47 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Bryan Fields" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of Bryan@bryanfields.net> wrote:
On 7/15/15 9:59 AM, Lee Howard wrote:
Price varies significantly by prefix length, and somewhat by region. Regional variance may not be as much as it used to be.
Does legacy space command a premium in this?
From what I understand, and I have not been a party to any transactions, there are differences in transaction where the space looks ³cleaner.² That is, space that has been less delegated, and has never appeared an a spam blacklist. I don¹t know whether that translates to higher prices, or whether buyers just won¹t buy questionable space.
What's the going rate to lease space (say a /20 or /19 for discussion)?
Leases aren¹t worth the trouble, because sellers believe that the only reason for a temporary lease is to originate spam, following which the address space is worthless. So if you can find a lease at all, it is likely to cost as much or more than buying outright. Personally, I wouldn¹t lease space at all, because I wouldn¹t want my organization¹s name anywhere near it when the bad stuff started happening. The ipv4auctions.com site lists prefixes that large; recent /20s have been $7.45-$8.00 per address. Bear in mind that I¹m essentially a researcher, and have no direct experience. You might want to talk to a broker or three. Lee
-- Bryan Fields
727-409-1194 - Voice 727-214-2508 - Fax http://bryanfields.net
participants (8)
-
Bryan Fields -
Hank Nussbacher -
Justin Wilson - MTIN -
Lee Howard -
Martin Hannigan -
Matt Kelly -
Pavel Odintsov -
Seth Mos