Re: Recycling old cabling?
All of the larger telcos and power utilities have been 're-smelting' copper for decades. Verizon (nee NY Telephone) had a copper smelting plant on Staten Island at one time that recycled all of the used cross-connect wire and cables removed from underground and poles. Telco main distribution frame personnel were, and very likely still are, instructed to use "copper-scrap" bags for depositing small bits and pieces of copper wiring collected at cleanup time at the end of work shifts. Many years ago, copper, for this reason, was one of the three "C"'s that no one would mess with. Copper and Cash were two.I'll leave the third one to the reader's imagination. This subject is interesting because it's one of the cost-justifiers in business models that seek to re-engineer large office buildings and other copper-intensive venues where the objective is to replace all copper wiring with hybrid fiber-wireless alternatives. While reclamation through salvage is only a by-product of this movement, it is nonetheless one that is cash intensive, so it cannot be overlooked. Not only is the copper data cabling removed (Cat3/5e/6, in this case), but also potentially tons of power cables and racks supporting sometimes hundreds of riser telecom/LAN closets, where there are usually anywhere from two to four closets per floor, depending on the size of the floor plate, in a forty- or sixty-story building, say. Every copper penny helps these days. --- streiner@cluebyfour.org wrote: From: "Justin M. Streiner" <streiner@cluebyfour.org> To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Recycling old cabling? Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Just out of curiosity, is anyone here recycling old cabling and plant infrastructure for their raw materials, or engaging a recycler to handle those materials? Where I work, there is almost always a renovation project going on. This provides opportunities to rip out Cat3/Cat5/long-abandoned thicknet/thinnet/FDDI-grade fiber/etc, which we normally do. Most of the time that old cabling ends up in the dumpster, but I'm wondering if anyone is recycling it, either by their choice, or as the result of company policy or relevant laws in your area? Cat3/Cat5 can be broken down to raw materials with some effort, but I haven't seen many recyclers with an economically viable process for doing it. Coax is a bit tougher, but not impossible (same questions about economic viability still apply). Fiber can be tough, expecially if you're dealing with something like 20+ year old gel-buffered cable where the has long-since dried out. I'd be interested to hear other peoples' experiences along these lines. jms
I know of a guy that was terminated for "stealing" CAT5 that he was instructed to throw in the dumpster. Jeff On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Frank A. Coluccio <frank@fttx.org> wrote:
All of the larger telcos and power utilities have been 're-smelting' copper for decades. Verizon (nee NY Telephone) had a copper smelting plant on Staten Island at one time that recycled all of the used cross-connect wire and cables removed from underground and poles. Telco main distribution frame personnel were, and very likely still are, instructed to use "copper-scrap" bags for depositing small bits and pieces of copper wiring collected at cleanup time at the end of work shifts. Many years ago, copper, for this reason, was one of the three "C"'s that no one would mess with. Copper and Cash were two.I'll leave the third one to the reader's imagination. This subject is interesting because it's one of the cost-justifiers in business models that seek to re-engineer large office buildings and other copper-intensive venues where the objective is to replace all copper wiring with hybrid fiber-wireless alternatives. While reclamation through salvage is only a by-product of this movement, it is nonetheless one that is cash intensive, so it cannot be overlooked. Not only is the copper data cabling removed (Cat3/5e/6, in this case), but also potentially tons of power cables and racks supporting sometimes hundreds of riser telecom/LAN closets, where there are usually anywhere from two to four closets per floor, depending on the size of the floor plate, in a forty- or sixty-story building, say. Every copper penny helps these days. --- streiner@cluebyfour.org wrote: From: "Justin M. Streiner" <streiner@cluebyfour.org> To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Recycling old cabling? Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Just out of curiosity, is anyone here recycling old cabling and plant infrastructure for their raw materials, or engaging a recycler to handle those materials? Where I work, there is almost always a renovation project going on. This provides opportunities to rip out Cat3/Cat5/long-abandoned thicknet/thinnet/FDDI-grade fiber/etc, which we normally do. Most of the time that old cabling ends up in the dumpster, but I'm wondering if anyone is recycling it, either by their choice, or as the result of company policy or relevant laws in your area? Cat3/Cat5 can be broken down to raw materials with some effort, but I haven't seen many recyclers with an economically viable process for doing it. Coax is a bit tougher, but not impossible (same questions about economic viability still apply). Fiber can be tough, expecially if you're dealing with something like 20+ year old gel-buffered cable where the has long-since dried out. I'd be interested to hear other peoples' experiences along these lines. jms
-- Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc. Follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/ddosprotection to find out about news, promotions, and (gasp!) system outages which are updated in real time. Platinum sponsor of HostingCon 2010. Come to Austin, TX on July 19 - 21 to find out how to "protect your booty."
It's pretty standard for any company to terminate upon taking something without permission. I worked with a company that threw away / recycled nearly an entire 100k sq. foot datacenter. All of the gear still in working order. It's just one those things... Your employer tells you to throw it away... It's best to throw it away and not try to take it home :) We (employees) could request specific pieces but the majority was thrown out. Kind of crazy to see entire Cisco lab environments trashed but it's not uncommon and trash or not, still stealing. As far as the original question: More companies recycle and properly dispose of equipment than they did ten years ago. Yet, if they aren't being looked at to be "green" or something along those lines then many choose the cheapest route (the dumpster). Per the note by Jeff, it's not recommended to try to take it into your own hands. Your best bet would be to approach your employer with a recommendation that you feel may be more cost-effective or environmentally friendly. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Lyon <jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:35:30 To: <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Recycling old cabling? I know of a guy that was terminated for "stealing" CAT5 that he was instructed to throw in the dumpster. Jeff On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Frank A. Coluccio <frank@fttx.org> wrote:
All of the larger telcos and power utilities have been 're-smelting' copper for decades. Verizon (nee NY Telephone) had a copper smelting plant on Staten Island at one time that recycled all of the used cross-connect wire and cables removed from underground and poles. Telco main distribution frame personnel were, and very likely still are, instructed to use "copper-scrap" bags for depositing small bits and pieces of copper wiring collected at cleanup time at the end of work shifts. Many years ago, copper, for this reason, was one of the three "C"'s that no one would mess with. Copper and Cash were two.I'll leave the third one to the reader's imagination. This subject is interesting because it's one of the cost-justifiers in business models that seek to re-engineer large office buildings and other copper-intensive venues where the objective is to replace all copper wiring with hybrid fiber-wireless alternatives. While reclamation through salvage is only a by-product of this movement, it is nonetheless one that is cash intensive, so it cannot be overlooked. Not only is the copper data cabling removed (Cat3/5e/6, in this case), but also potentially tons of power cables and racks supporting sometimes hundreds of riser telecom/LAN closets, where there are usually anywhere from two to four closets per floor, depending on the size of the floor plate, in a forty- or sixty-story building, say. Every copper penny helps these days. --- streiner@cluebyfour.org wrote: From: "Justin M. Streiner" <streiner@cluebyfour.org> To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Recycling old cabling? Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Just out of curiosity, is anyone here recycling old cabling and plant infrastructure for their raw materials, or engaging a recycler to handle those materials? Where I work, there is almost always a renovation project going on. This provides opportunities to rip out Cat3/Cat5/long-abandoned thicknet/thinnet/FDDI-grade fiber/etc, which we normally do. Most of the time that old cabling ends up in the dumpster, but I'm wondering if anyone is recycling it, either by their choice, or as the result of company policy or relevant laws in your area? Cat3/Cat5 can be broken down to raw materials with some effort, but I haven't seen many recyclers with an economically viable process for doing it. Coax is a bit tougher, but not impossible (same questions about economic viability still apply). Fiber can be tough, expecially if you're dealing with something like 20+ year old gel-buffered cable where the has long-since dried out. I'd be interested to hear other peoples' experiences along these lines. jms
-- Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc. Follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/ddosprotection to find out about news, promotions, and (gasp!) system outages which are updated in real time. Platinum sponsor of HostingCon 2010. Come to Austin, TX on July 19 - 21 to find out how to "protect your booty."
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, khatfield@socllc.net wrote:
More companies recycle and properly dispose of equipment than they did ten years ago. Yet, if they aren't being looked at to be "green" or something along those lines then many choose the cheapest route (the dumpster).
The amazing thing is sometimes they will pay to have it trashed instead of the option of a recycler/reseller coming around and picking it up at no cost. As you said, it's just one of those things. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On Aug 18, 2010, at 8:45 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, khatfield@socllc.net wrote:
More companies recycle and properly dispose of equipment than they did ten years ago. Yet, if they aren't being looked at to be "green" or something along those lines then many choose the cheapest route (the dumpster).
The amazing thing is sometimes they will pay to have it trashed instead of the option of a recycler/reseller coming around and picking it up at no cost.
As you said, it's just one of those things.
The cables might still have some ultra-secret bits in them.
Assumption: Construction guys are present. 1. Dump cable in large pile on the floor 2. Yell "Does anybody want this copper?" 3. Use broom to fend of multiple takers 4. Tell the guy who wants it that he can have it as long as he hauls it away Not that I've ever done this of course... The information in this email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this message or attachment is strictly prohibited. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the email and all of its attachments From: Patrik Wallstrom [mailto:pawal@blipp.com] Sent: Thu 8/19/2010 10:12 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Recycling old cabling? On Aug 18, 2010, at 8:45 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, khatfield@socllc.net wrote:
More companies recycle and properly dispose of equipment than they did ten years ago. Yet, if they aren't being looked at to be "green" or something along those lines then many choose the cheapest route (the dumpster).
The amazing thing is sometimes they will pay to have it trashed instead of the option of a recycler/reseller coming around and picking it up at no cost.
As you said, it's just one of those things.
The cables might still have some ultra-secret bits in them.
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:38:12 -0400, <khatfield@socllc.net> wrote:
I worked with a company that threw away / recycled nearly an entire 100k sq. foot datacenter. All of the gear still in working order. It's just one those things...
There are constraints beyond the logic of "common sense". And it flows from the accounting department :-) A former employer had a bunch of old PCs replaced. The old ones, for "tax reasons", had to be destroyed. Which meant they had to go in the dumpster. What happens to them after that is not my concern; I won't even notice if they aren't in there when the truck comes to empty that dumpster. Do what NCSU's ACS ("the hall of records") used to do... post to the news groups when ever they had anything "interesting" to throw away. In today's world, throwing a computer in a dumpster (headed to a landfill) is illegal just about everywhere. esp. CA. --Ricky
participants (7)
-
Adcock, Matt [HISNA] -
Frank A. Coluccio -
Jeffrey Lyon -
khatfield＠socllc.net -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Patrik Wallstrom -
Ricky Beam