MS is also, I am told, behind the gutting, stalling, and undermining of Senator Bowen's SB 12 (the California anti-spam legislation). Right now her office is basically scrambling to get other ISPs to give their input so that they can demonstrate that MS does not speak for the networking world in wanting things like this: "If a recipient has either provided direct consent or has a preexisting or current business relationship with the sender, commercial e-mail advertisements from that sender shall not be construed as unsolicited commercial e-mail advertisements." ... (k) "Preexisting or current business relationship," as used in connection with the sending of a commercial e-mail advertisement, means the recipient has made an inquiry, application, purchase, or transaction regarding products or services, including the use of free products or services, offered by the sender." So pretty much if someone breathed in their general direction, it's ok to put them on a mailing list and spam the heck out of them. Period. MS apparently threw their weight around in the Business & Professions committee, and asserted that they stand for everyone, and few others have come forth to refute it. [Note: We're leading a delegation to meet with Senator Bowen tomorrow; if anybody here cares about this stuff, and would like to offer their 2cents, I'd be happy to send you a copy of the bill, and hand carry a fax to her (or give you a fax # for her). But it needs to be fast, I'm heading up there in about 8 hours. This is CA legislation affecting any network which sends to or is in CA - it will impact everyone, on some level.] We now end this "how Bill becomes a law" civics class, and return you to your regularly scheduled NANOG. Anne