On Wednesday, February 05, 1997 8:02 AM, Michael Dillon[SMTP:michael@memra.com] wrote: @ On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Jim Fleming wrote: @ @ > 1. More government officials need to become educated about the @ > technology, the costs, the potential, and the need to fund @ > a broad cross-section of their constituencies as opposed @ > to the same old circle of friends that live off the NSF. They @ > are not going to get this education from the Internet Politicians @ > and therefore companies and indpendent people will have @ > to help. @ @ Education costs money and time. And time is money so the first problem is @ that education will cost a lot. In addition, the people who have an @ aptitude for management often do not have an aptitude for technology. @ Do you want governments to spend more of limited taxpayer dollars on @ educating themselves? Do you want government to become the exclusive @ preserve of technocrats? I think not. @ There are many ways that "More government officials need to become educated about the technology". One of the easiest ways, which does not cost one dime, is for people to elect officials that are familiar with the technology. This will occur naturally as a result of the fact that young people are learning about technology at earlier ages and some of that education is causing children to educate their parents. Some of those parents are (or will become) elected officials. Many people thought that the 1996 election would be the first Internet Election. In my opinion, the election here in the U.S. in 2000 will likely be the first. During this past election, the candidates knowledge or commitment to the technology was not even a minor issue. In 4 years it could be a major issue and who knows, maybe an Internet Party will develop by then as a strong third party to challenge the status quo. Until platform development, debates, elections, etc. are moved to the net, the net will not have an role other than advertising and hype. In 4 years, this might happen, at least in the U.S. @ > 2. Companies need to provide a stronger presence in the R&D @ > community and the Internet Infrastructure arena via the @ > dedication of people, servers, routers and networks @ > to help support the transition of the Internet FROM the @ > small group of Internet Politicians TO the real politicians @ > of the world and the real governments. @ @ Are you suggesting that corporations should take on a larger tax burden? @ No matter how you phrase it, using corporate resources to support @ government programs is a form of taxation. And increasing the jobs that @ governments do means increasing taxes. This sort of socialist agenda has @ pretty much been discredited in most of the world. @ No, not at all. Currently most of the Internet Taxes are flowing into Fairfax County Virginia. Anyone that watches CNN will note that the county now advertises, like a company. As more counties and states realize that millions of dollars each month are flowing from all parts of the globe to the suburbs of Washington, D.C. they will begin to ask why they are not part of those programs. In some cases, countries might wake up and ask this question. I am still amazed that Canadian companies have not clued the Canadian government into the fact that Canadian companies, like yours, are sending "tax" dollars to Washington, D.C. (Herndon, VA) when they could be sent to Ottawa. Companies can work hand in hand with local, county, state and federal governments to help them understand how the Internet Politicians are taxing the Internet. Once they better understand how the money is flowing, how jobs are being created, and how people are cashing in on huge fortunes, they will enter the game. Governments can "outsource" much of the Internet Taxation infrastructure to companies that are prepared to handle those services. This is essentially what happened with Network Solutions, Inc. Now, because of the huge influx of tax dollars, NSI is itself "outsourcing" many of the functions that they can not handle. Eventually, companies will see how the money flows in the registry industry. They may not get clued in from NSI, but those companies doing outsourcing will see that they could handle several NICs and it will only be a matter of time before other companies, say, "Hey, we can do that...in fact we can outsource to the same people NSI outsources to...". The registry industry is probably the last significant industry that will be formed in this century. It will some day take its place with Banking, Insurance, and other similar "paper businesses". It is currently in its infancy and most executives with the capital to invest do not have a feel for what is involved or the opportunities UNTIL they see an example and a Balance Sheet. Then they quickly understand. @ > 3. Taxpayers need to become better educated that the continued @ > funding of Internet Politicians is not in the best interest @ > of the taxpayers, because the Internet Politicians are @ > attempting to use that money to duplicate many of the @ > same government structures that already exist and the @ > taxpayers are going to end up paying twice for the same @ > functions. @ @ If you think that government bureaucrats are spending half their time @ doing nothing and therefore could be better occupied taking on new tasks @ then why shouldn't government simply lay off half the bureaucrats and @ cut costs while leaving the Internet to its own devices? In addition, you @ are incorrect when you say that taxpayers are paying twice because @ taxpayers do not pay for the Internet any more now that NSF has dismantled @ the NSFnet and removed funding for Internet infrastructure. @ I guess you missed this recent $1.4 million dollar allocation from the NSF to the USC/ISI home of the infamous IANA.

@@@ http://www.nsf.gov/ftp/awards96/awd9615/a9615927.txt

Title : Testbed Routers for Advanced Internet Lab (TRAIL) Type : Award NSF Org : NCR Latest Amendment Date : August 27, 1996 File : a9615927

Award Number: 9615927 Award Instr.: Standard Grant Prgm Manager: Darleen L. Fisher NCR DIV OF NETWORKING & COMMU RES & INFRASTR CSE DIRECT FOR COMPUTER & INFO SCIE & ENGINR Start Date : October 1, 1996 Expires : September 30, 1999 (Estimated) Expected Total Amt. : $1,499,999 (Estimated) Investigator: Herbert Schorr schorr@isi.edu Allison Mankin Sponsor : U of Southern California University Park Los Angeles, CA 900074363 213/743-2311

NSF Program : 4097 NETWORKING RESEARCH Fld Science : 31 Computer Science & Engineering 55 Engineering-Electrical Fld Applictn: 0206000 Telecommunications Abstract : USC/ISI will create and maintain TRAIL, Testbed Routers for Advanced Internet Labs. The TRAIL software will be a freely available, well maintained, community research router source, featuring IPv6 in particular. The work will extend and leverage developments and facilities of the Collaborative Advanced Interagency Research Network (CAIRN), organized by ISI under current DARPA funding. CAIRN is a T1, DS-3 and OC-3 wide area router testbed. The software is for two classes of hardware: 1) high performance but low-cost personal computers, supporting small numbers of router interfaces and 2) specialized router hardware, supporting the large numbers of interfaces that are characteristic of internet interconnect points, and providing a realistic experimental model of commercial IP routing technology. For the second class of hardware, one vendor who supports such numbers of high-speed interfaces proved interested in donating full source code to be used as the base of TRAIL. Therefore, the second class of hardware for TRAIL is the Ascend/Netstar, Gigarouter. It supports 32 OC-3 ATM ports, or combinations of ATM ports with 16 to 128 fast ethernet ports. The proposal focuses strongly on support of experimental users. ISI's care will be devoted to supporting their software, and maintaining and distributing versions for PC alone, and for PC along with Gigarouter. ISI will also maintain facilities for IPv6 networking research collaboration, and coordinate the North American portion of the experimental IPv6 backbone, the "6bone".

@@@@@

@ > In my opinion, the U.S. now has the advantage of "going it alone". @ > A close cooperation of the government, corporations, and taxpayers @ > is all that is now required to really accelerate progress in the U.S. @ > In essence, the IPv4 "experimental" Internet can be viewed as an @ > academic prototype and now the serious money will step into the @ > picture to move the playing field to a different level. @ @ Are you seriously suggesting that the USA should disconnect itself from @ the global Internet?! Somehow I can't see this idea receiving any @ corporate support whatsoever given that even small US corporations are @ able to support export activities using the Internet. It would certainly @ be a marvelous windfal for the rest of the world but I doubt that the @ US taxpayers would appreciate having their money used this way. @ Of course I am not suggesting that the USA disconnect itself from the global Internet. What I have said is quite simple, the U.S. does not need to sit around while the model that has been tested mostly in the U.S. is mapped to the rest of the world. The U.S. is free to move forward WITHOUT the Internet Politicians who will no doubt now spend most of their time educating the rest of the world and making a buck off that education. Imagine if the Internet Politicians were "missionaries", imagine if they came to the U.S. and set up churches (ISPs) along every river and road, imagine if most of the population was "converted". Now, given that, would the "missionaries" hang around ? No. They would set off for some frontier where they are needed. Would the U.S. be expected to stop all progress ? No. They would be free to "go it alone". As a real world example, look at the recent meetings in Hong Kong. The Asia-Pacific market is a huge market and many of the Internet Politicians are headed there to seek their fortunes. Another example is the ISOC meeting this year in Malaysia. In all of these meetings, people will not be talking about tomorrow's technology and developments they will be talking about things that have been proven in the U.S. market place. Small countries can not yet afford to take the risk of being a leader in these arenas. The U.S. does not have to wait. Closer to home, look at Canada. You have been very vocal about how far behind the times your country is. I believe that you once described that they could not even handle IP allocations correctly. Does the U.S. have to wait, while Canada learns how to run a simple address registry ? I don't think so. Just because the U.S. does not wait does not mean that it is cutting itself off. As an example, imagine that radio was everywhere and TV was the next major advance. Imagine that your country, Canada, was just getting comfortable with FM radio. Imagine that the U.S. TV broadcasts are picked up by Canadian citizens on their radios. The U.S. could move forward without being concerned that you can not see the picture. They have no reason to ask for your permission. Also, the U.S. would not have to delay T.V until everyone on earth has a radio. That would be foolish. @ > @ and losers. Lets get NSI's monopoly removed gracefully, thank the NSF for @ > @ their "assistance" over the years, and let industry take the lead. @ > @ @ > @ Bill Schrader @ > @ Chairman, President, CEO and Founder @ > @ PSINet Inc. @ @ Upon reading this little segment I realize that Bill's earlier comments @ probably did not have the spin which you put on them in this reply. @ @ > Yes, industry needs to take the lead. In my opnion, industry @ > needs to lead government. U.S. companies need to get together @ > to make specific proposals to the U.S. government to "assist" @ > the NSF out of the picture and as a replacement better more @ > reliable systems and services need to fill the void. @ @ Quite frankly, the NSF already is out of the picture. The one remaining @ thread is that they have a contract with NSI which does not expire until @ around April of 1998. Other than that, their Internet activities appear to @ be wholly in support of the research and education community which is @ quite appropriate. @ The NSF and the U.S. Government are very much in the picture at least in the U.S. While I fully understand why you would like to see the NSF disappear to create a void to be financially exploited by people you actively support, I am more concerned with making sure that the citizens and companies in the U.S. have an extremely stable IPv4 core network which can be used to support new innovations. @ > The ball is clearly in the NSF's court. The current investigation @ > of the NSF by the Office of the Inspector General will hopefully @ @ Sounds like you are continuing to harass anyone you can find to help you @ tilting against the windmills. @ @ @ Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting @ Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 @ http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com @ @ @ Thanks for your comments... -- Jim Fleming Unir Corporation e-mail: JimFleming@unety.net JimFleming@unety.s0.g0 (EDNS/IPv8)