RE: Compromised machines liable for damage?
Dave, RIAA wins almost 100pct vs p2p'ers ir sues. Its an interesting dichotomy. Marty -----Original Message----- From: Dave Pooser [mailto:dave.nanog@alfordmedia.com] Sent: Sun Dec 25 23:09:02 2005 To: NANOG Subject: Compromised machines liable for damage?
This should be another thread completely, but I am wondering about the liability of the individual's who have owned machines that are attacking me/my clients.
As a practical matter, I'd expect it to be difficult to try. Convincing a jury that running a PHP version that's three months out of date constitutes gross negligence because you should have read about the vulnerability on the Web might be... tricky. Especially when you have to explain to the jury what PHP is. Dueling expert witnesses arguing about best practice, poor confused webmaster/Amway distributor looking bewildered at all this technical talk ("I figgered I just buy Plesk and I was good to go. I dunno nothin' about PHP. Isn't that a drug?") Not to mention working out what percentage of the damages you suffered should come from each host. But yeah, I'd like to see it tried. Lawyering up is one of our core competencies here in the USA; maybe we could use it for good instead of evil. -- Dave Pooser Manager of Information Services Alford Media http://www.alfordmedia.com
In message <80632326218FE74899BDD48BB836421A033001@Dul1wnexmb04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.c om>, "Hannigan, Martin" writes:
Dave, RIAA wins almost 100pct vs p2p'ers ir sues. Its an interesting = dichotomy.
"Wins" is too strong a word, since I don't think any have gone to court -- see http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-Music-Download-Suit.html as my source. Besides, it's a very different situation. For my take on liability issues -- note that I'm not a lawyer, and note that this is from 1994 -- see http://www.wilyhacker.com/1e/chap12.pdf --Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
On December 25, 2005 at 23:14 hannigan@verisign.com (Hannigan, Martin) wrote:
Dave, RIAA wins almost 100pct vs p2p'ers ir sues. Its an interesting dichotomy.
Mostly because it's almost always cheaper to settle than pursue a defense. Read the articles about this "internet illiterate download mom vs RIAA" story (you can't have missed it.) She could've settled for ~$3500, she decided to fight it, she's now at $24,000 in legal expenses and hasn't even gotten close to trial. No juries to convince, no expert witnesses, no courtroom, no fascinating point of law debated, just a simple economic choice, wanna plead guilty for $3500 or run up $25K in legal bills and more? And probably settle anyhow when you decide you've had enough. Anyone who speaks about juries, the law, judges, etc in these kinds of cases is just revealing themselves as having never had any experience with the US legal system, or is speaking for a wealthy corporation who can toss $50K at cases on a whim. In my experience you can easily run up $25K in initial filings, just letters going back and forth between both sides' lawyers, no judge or court involved other than it's being filed by a clerk who checks some mechanics (e.g., deadlines), but no one at the court is reading any of it and they sincerely hope they never have to (i.e., that you'll settle out of court, probably because one side ran out of money.) -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Login: Nationwide Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
In my experience you can easily run up $25K in initial filings, just letters going back and forth between both sides' lawyers, no judge or court involved other than it's being filed by a clerk who checks some mechanics (e.g., deadlines), but no one at the court is reading any of it and they sincerely hope they never have to (i.e., that you'll settle out of court, probably because one side ran out of money.)
s/\$25K/$250K/, but otherwise, yes. -- Paul Vixie
* Martin Hannigan:
Dave, RIAA wins almost 100pct vs p2p'ers ir sues. Its an interesting dichotomy.
Sure, but copyright law is a bit out of proportion. Maybe you could hunt down the bad guys if they packeted you with Celine Dion
Florian Weimer wrote:
* Martin Hannigan:
Dave, RIAA wins almost 100pct vs p2p'ers ir sues. Its an interesting dichotomy.
Sure, but copyright law is a bit out of proportion. Maybe you could hunt down the bad guys if they packeted you with Celine Dion
Nah, torture is a criminal offence. ;-) / Mat
participants (6)
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Barry Shein -
Florian Weimer -
Hannigan, Martin -
Matthew Sullivan -
Paul Vixie -
Steven M. Bellovin