I am doing some work on a network in central Illinois that is currently peering with Sprint and McLeod. They have a number of customers in the U.K. and they want to reduce latency to that part of the world. They've been offered a point to point 100 mbit link between their facility and a location in London from Cogent, but this isn't IP service. They've asked me to sort out how they can use this link or to find a good alternative for them. A long time ago I think Teleglobe peering would have been the snap answer for European connectivity, but its been a few years. Who would I look to in terms of a carrier on that side of the pond? We've got on net termination with Sprint as a starting point for a link ...
Hi, few strong links in Europe and specially UK are: COGENT, LEVEL3, C&W,TELEFONICA COGENT "win" most of our US links to Europe even better than LEVEL3, but i would not be surprise if LEVEL3 win most of the links to the UK. for sprintlink, from Caribbean C&W goes to sprintlink Miami and from there to telefnoica even though there's a path through cogent/LEVEL3. in terms of connectivity inside telefonica i am not happy with, alot of latency for too many places, and alot of failures around Spain(i assume telefonica is spanish) C&W is very strong in UK, as well as LEVEL3 and cogent. but this is not enough to come to any conclusion, so i would start by analyzing ip scopes where most of the European clients are connecting from and run some BGP queries and traces. and checking up sprintlink peering to differenet london locations. hope it's not too vague and it gives you anything useful, Lior On 12/5/06, nealr <neal@lists.rauhauser.net> wrote:
I am doing some work on a network in central Illinois that is currently peering with Sprint and McLeod. They have a number of customers in the U.K. and they want to reduce latency to that part of the world. They've been offered a point to point 100 mbit link between their facility and a location in London from Cogent, but this isn't IP service. They've asked me to sort out how they can use this link or to find a good alternative for them.
A long time ago I think Teleglobe peering would have been the snap answer for European connectivity, but its been a few years. Who would I look to in terms of a carrier on that side of the pond? We've got on net termination with Sprint as a starting point for a link ...
Lior, No, this is very helpful. We just turned up AdventNet's Net Flow Analyzer for this customer's two production cisco 7507s and we should be able to see where the European customers are very shortly. It is good to know that Cogent is a decent choice for this job - we've seen not so positive stuff about them here in the past. If we can narrow things down to Cogent and Level 3 right away that is a good place to start. Someone sent me to peeringdb.com and it looks like I have plenty of places to choose from in London. Neal outageslist outages wrote:
Hi, few strong links in Europe and specially UK are: COGENT, LEVEL3, C&W,TELEFONICA COGENT "win" most of our US links to Europe even better than LEVEL3, but i would not be surprise if LEVEL3 win most of the links to the UK. for sprintlink, from Caribbean C&W goes to sprintlink Miami and from there to telefnoica even though there's a path through cogent/LEVEL3. in terms of connectivity inside telefonica i am not happy with, alot of latency for too many places, and alot of failures around Spain(i assume telefonica is spanish) C&W is very strong in UK, as well as LEVEL3 and cogent. but this is not enough to come to any conclusion, so i would start by analyzing ip scopes where most of the European clients are connecting from and run some BGP queries and traces. and checking up sprintlink peering to differenet london locations.
hope it's not too vague and it gives you anything useful,
Lior
On 12/5/06, nealr <neal@lists.rauhauser.net> wrote:
I am doing some work on a network in central Illinois that is currently peering with Sprint and McLeod. They have a number of customers in the U.K. and they want to reduce latency to that part of the world. They've been offered a point to point 100 mbit link between their facility and a location in London from Cogent, but this isn't IP service. They've asked me to sort out how they can use this link or to find a good alternative for them.
A long time ago I think Teleglobe peering would have been the snap answer for European connectivity, but its been a few years. Who would I look to in terms of a carrier on that side of the pond? We've got on net termination with Sprint as a starting point for a link ...
You can check out LINX out of the UK. Its is a decent public exchange point out of the UK and currently has the most participants out of all other peering points in the UK. You could also try www.peeringdb.com -- a great resource for peering data from a global standpoint. Hope that helps... Pablo On 12/5/06, nealr <neal@lists.rauhauser.net> wrote:
I am doing some work on a network in central Illinois that is currently peering with Sprint and McLeod. They have a number of customers in the U.K. and they want to reduce latency to that part of the world. They've been offered a point to point 100 mbit link between their facility and a location in London from Cogent, but this isn't IP service. They've asked me to sort out how they can use this link or to find a good alternative for them.
A long time ago I think Teleglobe peering would have been the snap answer for European connectivity, but its been a few years. Who would I look to in terms of a carrier on that side of the pond? We've got on net termination with Sprint as a starting point for a link ...
I am doing some work on a network in central Illinois that is currently peering with Sprint and McLeod. They have a number of customers in the U.K. and they want to reduce latency to that part of the world.
Make sure they're not trying to reduce latency below the speed of light in fibre. Make sure that your client understands that they will never achieve the same latencies trans-Atlantic as they achieve within the state. We recently had to haul back one of our over-eager account managers who was trying to sell a low-latency solution that was about 3 times faster than the speed of light in fibre. BTW, the speed of light in fibre is roughly equal to the speed of electrons in copper and roughly equal to two-thirds the speed of light in a vacuum. You just can't move information faster than about 200,000 km/hr. --Michael Dillon
Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com writes:
BTW, the speed of light in fibre is roughly equal to the speed of electrons in copper and roughly equal to two-thirds the speed of light in a vacuum. You just can't move information faster than about 200,000 km/hr.
Slow day at work, Michael? In my universe light in glass moves about 3600 times as fast. :-) ---Rob
Have you ever had to use Radianz' service? :-) (disclaimer: it's far, far better nowadays)
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Robert E. Seastrom Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:38 AM To: Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: U.S./Europe connectivity
Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com writes:
BTW, the speed of light in fibre is roughly equal to the speed of electrons in copper and roughly equal to two-thirds the speed of light in a vacuum. You just can't move information faster than about 200,000 km/hr.
Slow day at work, Michael? In my universe light in glass moves about 3600 times as fast. :-)
---Rob
"You cannae break the laws of physics, Captain!" Seriously, LINX is the obvious first step. On 12/6/06, David Temkin <dave@rightmedia.com> wrote:
Have you ever had to use Radianz' service? :-)
(disclaimer: it's far, far better nowadays)
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Robert E. Seastrom Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:38 AM To: Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: U.S./Europe connectivity
Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com writes:
BTW, the speed of light in fibre is roughly equal to the speed of electrons in copper and roughly equal to two-thirds the speed of light in a vacuum. You just can't move information faster than about 200,000 km/hr.
Slow day at work, Michael? In my universe light in glass moves about 3600 times as fast. :-)
---Rob
"You cannae break the laws of physics, Captain!"
Seriously, LINX is the obvious first step.
To find a low latency connection from Chicago to Europe? Somehow I think that he should be shopping locally but it might be useful to use the LINX looking-glass to validate what his local vendors tell him about round trip times. Or he could use a looking-glass in Chicago to measure traffic to various European destinations. LINX, London http://www.linx.net/www_public/our_network/network_tools Equinix, Chicago http://lg.broadwing.net/looking/ If I were in his position I would make the rounds of all vendors in Chicago, ask for prices and latency data, then check their latency numbers using various looking-glass sites. If a vendor gives out numbers that vary significantly from what you can measure then I would want a detailed explanation of why that is. --Michael Dillon
Get ip-transit from a provider that is peering with tier2s in the uk. I'm seeing problems with tier1s again and again: they have a great global network but they won't reach most of the end users on a direct way since they are only peering with other tier1s. The route will always go trough a tier1 then a tier1's customer and then to the destination which is rather indirect. Tier2 usually have better connectivity and are exchanging traffic with other tier2s on more places than just one per country as tier1s are usually doing. Peering at linx might also be a good idea but don't forget that only a few networks are going to peer with you if you are a small player... The best mix one can get for ip-transit always is a combination of tier1s and in addition to them tier2s who are serving the geographic region where your targets (mostly eyeballs I guess) are. Good tier2s in Europe are Lambdanet and Telia* for example. Telia is selling transit services in the US as far as I know so this might be the best option. Gunther * = Telia is something between a tier1 and a tier2 if you ask me. Okay they are buying transit from spring or something like that but what I'm aiming at is that they are peering with most European end user networks.
participants (8)
-
Alexander Harrowell -
David Temkin -
Gunther Stammwitz -
Michael.Dillon＠btradianz.com -
nealr -
outageslist outages -
Pablo Espinosa -
Robert E. Seastrom