ferguson@cisco.COM (Paul Ferguson) writes:
This latest fiber cut just kind of jarred my brain into the realization of what "telco quality" services really boils down to.
In the end, all services, both traditional telephony services and data services, are more alike than people give them credit for. :-)
I get a chuckle when I see the Lucent advertisments about making the data network as reliable as the voice network. I understand it is just marketing, but it does show a rather basic misunderstanding of the relationship between voice and data network reliability. I guess it is like most things, the more you learn about a subject the less you really wanted to know about it. Are there similarites between the voice and data networks? Yes. Are there differences between the voice and data networks? Yes. Will the entire telephone system fail? No. Will the entire Internet fail? No. Are there things that can happen to both which will really ruin your day? Yes. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Sean Donelan said:
Are there things that can happen to both which will really ruin your day? Yes.
And increasingly, as you point out.. Are there single things that can happen will really ruin both your "phone day" and "data day"? Hell, yes. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
At 06:14 PM 10/10/98 -0500, Sean Donelan wrote:
ferguson@cisco.COM (Paul Ferguson) writes:
This latest fiber cut just kind of jarred my brain into the realization of what "telco quality" services really boils down to.
In the end, all services, both traditional telephony services and data services, are more alike than people give them credit for. :-)
I get a chuckle when I see the Lucent advertisments about making the data network as reliable as the voice network. I understand it is just marketing, but it does show a rather basic misunderstanding of the relationship between voice and data network reliability. I guess it is like most things, the more you learn about a subject the less you really wanted to know about it.
Are there similarites between the voice and data networks? Yes. Are there differences between the voice and data networks? Yes.
Will the entire telephone system fail? No. Will the entire Internet fail? No.
Are there things that can happen to both which will really ruin your day? Yes.
Actually, on 2Sep98, PacBell had a CO failure that knocked out service, in Livermore, for 12 hours. Voice, data, everything, not even 911! ___________________________________________________ Roeland M.J. Meyer, ISOC (InterNIC RM993) e-mail: <mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com>rmeyer@mhsc.com Internet phone: hawk.mhsc.com Personal web pages: <http://www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer>www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer Company web-site: <http://www.mhsc.com/>www.mhsc.com/ ___________________________________________ I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Roeland M.J. Meyer said:
Are there things that can happen to both which will really ruin your day? Yes.
Actually, on 2Sep98, PacBell had a CO failure that knocked out service, in Livermore, for 12 hours. Voice, data, everything, not even 911!
Not sure how a CO failure brings down leased line data.... What WILL bring down the whole house..: Fiber cut -- as well as other wholescale transmission FUBAR's. Power -- remember the NYC ATT crash? It took hours to bring the DACS back up... Don't overlook lightning strikes on the incoming power feed. Enviromental -- if the HVAC croaks, if a waterline floods from the cable vault on up, or there's an earthquake, or a Hinsdale-style fire. But such will never happen, so we can all rest easy....right? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
On Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 07:32:01PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
What WILL bring down the whole house..:
my favorite was the one byte change to the switch code which took out a big chunk of the country.
Are you referring to the 4ESS SS7 cascade crash of several years back, Randy? I seem to recall that that was more than one character. Couple of lines. Now, there _was_ a one character problem in a FORTRTAN program that killed a space probe... The Neumann and Lee books are quite good references on this, albeit the Lee book is a touch sensational. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Buy copies of The New Hackers Dictionary. The Suncoast Freenet Give them to all your friends. Tampa Bay, Florida http://www.ccil.org/jargon/ +1 813 790 7592
At 10:24 PM 10/10/98 -0400, David Lesher wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Roeland M.J. Meyer said:
Are there things that can happen to both which will really ruin your day? Yes.
Actually, on 2Sep98, PacBell had a CO failure that knocked out service, in Livermore, for 12 hours. Voice, data, everything, not even 911!
Not sure how a CO failure brings down leased line data....
The *whole* CO went off-line.
What WILL bring down the whole house..:
Fiber cut -- as well as other wholescale transmission FUBAR's.
That wouldn't have taken the entire town off-line.
Power -- remember the NYC ATT crash? It took hours to bring the DACS back up... Don't overlook lightning strikes on the incoming power feed.
Enviromental -- if the HVAC croaks, if a waterline floods from the cable vault on up, or there's an earthquake, or a Hinsdale-style fire.
I would have notice an earthquake, of the fire. The CO's not far from here.
But such will never happen, so we can all rest easy....right?
Cascaded failures will do it. aka Murphy having a party. ___________________________________________________ Roeland M.J. Meyer, ISOC (InterNIC RM993) e-mail: <mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com>rmeyer@mhsc.com Internet phone: hawk.mhsc.com Personal web pages: <http://www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer>www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer Company web-site: <http://www.mhsc.com/>www.mhsc.com/ ___________________________________________ I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky
participants (5)
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David Lesher -
Jay R. Ashworth -
Randy Bush -
Roeland M.J. Meyer -
Sean Donelan