Steve, I think that what it boils down to is how many times do you want to split Metcalfe before it becomes self-defeating. Similar arguments have surfaced recently due to the emergence of proprietary vertical voip applications such s Skype. If one is appeased simplmy by communing with a fixed set of users of a given community mind set, then it works and everyone is happy. Beyond that? One could be left sucking wind. Frank ps - I've been advised on several occasions by Randy Bush alone that whenever I post to NANOG I leave microsoft artifacts such as ( ^ } in my wake. I don't see it myself. If this happens to be the case in this writing, then would someone please email me indicating so? Appreash ..