Disturbing information on one of the founders of Spamhaus.org http://www.geocities.com/jackjack9872004/ _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
From Deep Throat, received 17/3/04, 21:10 +0000 (GMT):
Disturbing information on one of the founders of Spamhaus.org
Not just a load of BS, but posted to NANOG anonymously, through a hijacked machine at 198.26.130.36 (The Pentagon) no less. -- Steve Linford The Spamhaus Project http://www.spamhaus.org
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Steve Linford wrote:
From Deep Throat, received 17/3/04, 21:10 +0000 (GMT):
Disturbing information on one of the founders of Spamhaus.org http://www.geocities.com/jackjack9872004/ Not just a load of BS, but posted to NANOG anonymously, through a hijacked machine at 198.26.130.36 (The Pentagon) no less.
federal interest site. thats automatic prison time, isnt it? i suspect the culprit could be prosecuted under PATRIOT, and sent away for quite a _long_ time... -Dan
I believe under USC18 there is a section that clearly states hacking a government computer can get you a maximum of 30 years in federal prison and a $250,000.00 fine Please correct me if that postscription of law has been vacated..... -Henry Dan Hollis <goemon@anime.net> wrote: On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Steve Linford wrote:
From Deep Throat, received 17/3/04, 21:10 +0000 (GMT):
Disturbing information on one of the founders of Spamhaus.org http://www.geocities.com/jackjack9872004/ Not just a load of BS, but posted to NANOG anonymously, through a hijacked machine at 198.26.130.36 (The Pentagon) no less.
federal interest site. thats automatic prison time, isnt it? i suspect the culprit could be prosecuted under PATRIOT, and sent away for quite a _long_ time... -Dan
In message <20040317234440.89918.qmail@web80509.mail.yahoo.com>, Henry Linneweh writes:
--0-1103097329-1079567080=:87987 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I believe under USC18 there is a section that clearly states hacking a governm ent computer can get you a maximum of 30 years in federal prison and a $250,00 0.00 fine Please correct me if that postscription of law has been vacated.....
I don't think so, but my browser isn't rendering some of the characters correctly at http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html --Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Steve Linford wrote:
From Deep Throat, received 17/3/04, 21:10 +0000 (GMT):
Disturbing information on one of the founders of Spamhaus.org http://www.geocities.com/jackjack9872004/ Not just a load of BS, but posted to NANOG anonymously, through a hijacked machine at 198.26.130.36 (The Pentagon) no less.
federal interest site. thats automatic prison time, isnt it?
Of course, not - he is not from USA (more likely), the end. Why people believe, that this acts means ANYTHING? In Internet, they (acts) means NOTHING.
Alexei Roudnev wrote:
Of course, not - he is not from USA (more likely), the end. Why people believe, that this acts means ANYTHING? In Internet, they (acts) means NOTHING.
Unless they live in a country that has a "secret" treaty with the US, like the UK has had for some years, where any US court can issue and arrest warrant for someone in the UK and have it honoured. Why do you think that FBI is even allowed to get involved in arresting 14 year old hackers in Cardiff ? OK, it isn't secret - since I know about it for a start - but the terms are secret and also it is very under-advertised to the locals. Wonder what other countries have sold their souls to Satan ? Peter
Peter Galbavy wrote:
Alexei Roudnev wrote:
Of course, not - he is not from USA (more likely), the end. Why people believe, that this acts means ANYTHING? In Internet, they (acts) means NOTHING.
Unless they live in a country that has a "secret" treaty with the US, like the UK has had for some years, where any US court can issue and arrest warrant for someone in the UK and have it honoured. Why do you think that FBI is even allowed to get involved in arresting 14 year old hackers in Cardiff ?
OK, it isn't secret - since I know about it for a start - but the terms are secret and also it is very under-advertised to the locals. Wonder what other countries have sold their souls to Satan ?
Peter
-- Requiescas in pace o email
Peter Galbavy wrote:
OK, it isn't secret - since I know about it for a start - but the terms are secret and also it is very under-advertised to the locals. Wonder what other countries have sold their souls to Satan ?
How many dead soldiers from your country are buried here? -- Requiescas in pace o email
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. wrote:
Peter Galbavy wrote:
OK, it isn't secret - since I know about it for a start - but the terms are secret and also it is very under-advertised to the locals. Wonder what other countries have sold their souls to Satan ?
How many dead soldiers from your country are buried here?
A very sad, now old, and misused argument to justify (a lack of regard for) current global opinion about your home country. Peter
Peter Galbavy wrote:
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. wrote:
Peter Galbavy wrote:
OK, it isn't secret - since I know about it for a start - but the terms are secret and also it is very under-advertised to the locals. Wonder what other countries have sold their souls to Satan ?
How many dead soldiers from your country are buried here?
A very sad, now old, and misused argument to justify (a lack of regard for) current global opinion about your home country.
I'm glad there is still a Wales for you to post your opinions from. -- Requiescas in pace o email
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Peter Galbavy wrote:
Alexei Roudnev wrote:
Of course, not - he is not from USA (more likely), the end. Why people believe, that this acts means ANYTHING? In Internet, they (acts) means NOTHING.
Unless they live in a country that has a "secret" treaty with the US, like the UK has had for some years, where any US court can issue and arrest warrant for someone in the UK and have it honoured. Why do you think that FBI is even allowed to get involved in arresting 14 year old hackers in Cardiff ?
OK, it isn't secret - since I know about it for a start - but the terms are secret and also it is very under-advertised to the locals. Wonder what other countries have sold their souls to Satan ?
So, the US gov't is "Satan" going after "innocent" hackers in Wales? It still boggles my mind how prevelant this shallow, trendy attitude is in Europe, even among supposedly educated people. Why think when you can just join the crowd spewing ignorance, as long as it sounds Bohemian and anti-establishment? PS: Without Satan, there would be no Internet for you to express your considered opions on. James Smallacombe PlantageNet, Inc. CEO and Janitor up@3.am http://3.am =========================================================================
So, the US gov't is "Satan" going after "innocent" hackers in Wales? No, but the US government is apparently now allowed to arrest and extradite a child from the UK without having to show a judge good cause - which is *not* true in reverse, or for any other country. Up until recently, the US authorities would have had to make a case for extradition and/or arrest to a UK judge before the local plod would even be informed
up@3.am wrote: that there was an interest in the kid.... Yes, its a worrying development. No, it isn't particularly evil (just more evidence the american government thinks their laws should apply worldwide) or even marginally on-topic for Nanog.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Howe" <DaveHowe@gmx.co.uk> To: "Email List: nanog" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Spamhaus Exposed
So, the US gov't is "Satan" going after "innocent" hackers in Wales? No, but the US government is apparently now allowed to arrest and extradite a child from the UK without having to show a judge good cause - which is *not* true in reverse, or for any other country. Up until recently, the US authorities would have had to make a case for extradition and/or arrest to a UK judge before the local plod would even be informed
up@3.am wrote: that there was an interest in the kid.... Yes, its a worrying development. No, it isn't particularly evil (just more evidence the american government thinks their laws should apply worldwide) or even marginally on-topic for Nanog.
The "Child" you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Josh Brady
Joshua Brady wrote:
The "Child" you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it.
Do you support the converse, where some little s*** hacks my London network from some random US college ? At the moment, I have no recourse of any kind and the UK authorities have no power, and as a consequence, no interest. Peter
Do you support the converse, where some little s*** hacks my London network from some random US college ? At the moment, I have no recourse of any kind and the UK authorities have no power, and as a consequence, no interest.
I'd get a London network before I worried about being hacked..
Joshua Brady wrote:
The "Child" you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it. Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too....
could this be taken offlist please? Dave Howe wrote:
Joshua Brady wrote:
The "Child" you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it.
Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too....
-- My "Foundation" verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
This entire fiasco needs to migrate off line, please -Henry William Warren <hescominsoon@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com> wrote: could this be taken offlist please? Dave Howe wrote:
Joshua Brady wrote:
The "Child" you speak of caused destruction over a network, the same applied for the 2 hackers here who were sent over without even questioning the UK. If the US Government is Satan then I suppose I am going to hell, because I sure as hell support it.
Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too....
-- My "Foundation" verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Dave Howe wrote:
Oh, so do I - I just think on general principles it really should require a judge in the serving country to rubberstamp it before the snatch and grab takes place - or more appropriately that the case be made to a UK judge, the child tried here and sentenced here. His actions were, after all, a criminal offence here too....
My expierience with getting the UK law enforcement to deal with cybercrimes has been less then stellar. Handing them logs of a kid taking down large networks (Including an entire smaller country one day), complete with evidence from the networks being hit, and him bragging he did it resulted in them picking him up and releasing him the next day. They never charged him with anything and basically told him to not do it again.. Kinda sucks.. Jason -- Jason Slagle - CCNP - CCDP /"\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign . X - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail . / \ - NO Word docs in e-mail .
Dave Howe wrote:
cause - which is *not* true in reverse, or for any other country. Up until recently, the US authorities would have had to make a case for extradition and/or arrest to a UK judge before the local plod would even be informed that there was an interest in the kid....
Not that recent, I believe the original "treaty" (a touch one sided for a treaty) was signed in 1998. Peter
> No, it isn't particularly evil (just more evidence the american > government thinks their laws should apply worldwide). Well, like any tool, it's not inherently evil, it just depends how it's used. And in all likelihood, if it's used with respect to England, in all likelihood it'll be used in moderation, since England has some political visibility of its own. The problem that I've seen in the work I do overseas is the coercive methods and the economic side-effects thereof which the US State Department use to affect these agreements in countries which have less visibility than England. So I don't support this sort of non-reciprocal extradition agreement. Largely because I find it offensive to reduce or circumvent the constitutional rights guaranteed by other soverign nations to their citizens. -Bill
--On Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:12 AM -0800 Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
Well, like any tool, it's not inherently evil, it just depends how it's used. And in all likelihood, if it's used with respect to England, in all likelihood it'll be used in moderation, since England has some political visibility of its own.
Hey Bill. Just so you know in the future, Cardiff is not in England. Now, even the HTML poster who mistakes nanog for spam-l is asking for this to be taken offlist... the *original* thread wasn't even on target, let alone where this is going :p
up@3.am wrote:
So, the US gov't is "Satan" going after "innocent" hackers in Wales? It still boggles my mind how prevelant this shallow, trendy attitude is in Europe, even among supposedly educated people. Why think when you can just join the crowd spewing ignorance, as long as it sounds Bohemian and anti-establishment?
PS: Without Satan, there would be no Internet for you to express your considered opions on.
I think the US comes across as a very righteous country to the rest of the world, with all the good and bad conatations that brings with it. right·eous adj. 1. Morally upright; without guilt or sin: a righteous parishioner. 2. In accordance with virtue or morality: a righteous judgment. 3. Morally justifiable: righteous anger, righteous indignation. "Fearless in his righteous cause." - Milton. "I prefer the most unfair peace to the most righteous war." - Cicero. "People must have righteous principals in the first, and then they will not fail to perform virtuous actions." - Martin Luther "Lord save us from the fury of the righteous" - Unknown Anyway, I should get back to some actual network engineering and less popcorn eating, diverting as this thread is. Sam
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 up@3.am wrote:
PS: Without Satan, there would be no Internet for you to express your considered opions on.
Oh ye gods.. Without a certain anglo-irishman (George Boole) and a certain other englishman (Alan Turing) (and doubtless many other people from a whole bunch of places), there would be no computers or electronics for you to have built an internet on, indeed we all owe a great debt to the Arabs (particularly those in Mesopotamia, ie present day Iraq) for maintaining and significantly advancing the state of the art in mathematics (As well as inventing cryptoanalysis), while western europe descended into the backwards middle-ages. Many of the BGP RFCs were authored and co-authored by an Indian (as is much software). etc.. etc.. etc.. We all stand on the shoulders' of giants, no country or people have a monopoly on innovation, advances in this modern world are impossible without drawing on thousands of years of collective human knowledge and progress. Now can we go back to netops related stuff please? regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: If a listener nods his head when you're explaining your program, wake him up.
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 16:33, Paul Jakma wrote:
Oh ye gods..
Without a certain anglo-irishman (George Boole) and a certain other englishman (Alan Turing) (and doubtless many other people from a whole bunch of places), there would be no computers or electronics for you to have built an internet on
Hog wash. You assume that only those two men could do what they did. "Mom" (not to be confused with "MoM") is about the only thing your logic applies to. With out her, no one would be here to do the things we do. ;) -Jim P.
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Hog wash. You assume that only those two men could do what they did.
I dont assume anything, history merely records they did. If you wish to assume advances are inevitable, fine. It would apply equally to the advance that started this silly thread, hence had "America"^Wwhoever not invented the internet, someone else would have. We should be as grateful to those americans who invented the internet as all those others whose work made it possible, regardless where they came from. It cuts so many ways that ultimately one can only conclude we should all just be grateful, full stop, and never mind the inane chest-beating about "without us you wouldnt have ..! you ungrateful clod!". America is undoubtedly the preeminent driving force today economically for technological/scientific progress, as once was the British Empire, as once was the Arab world, as once was the Roman Empire, as once was... etc.. etc.. etc..
"Mom" (not to be confused with "MoM") is about the only thing your logic applies to. With out her, no one would be here to do the things we do. ;)
Absolutely :) Anyway, enough of the history lessons, let's just be glad we're here.
-Jim P.
regards, -- Paul Jakma paul@clubi.ie paul@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st Fortune: Philosophy: A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing. -- Ambrose Bierce
Paul Jakma wrote:
America is undoubtedly the preeminent driving force today economically for technological/scientific progress, as once was the British Empire, as once was the Arab world, as once was the Roman Empire, as once was... etc.. etc.. etc..
Yes it is off topic (what ever that turns out to mean). and yes we have been asked to behave, but I just can't resist....A Scot (name of George Simpson) once ruled an area 10 times that of the Roman Empire. And some of those other folks named were Scots too, I think.
Anyway, enough of the history lessons, let's just be glad we're here.
That's what _I'm_ talking about. [yes'm. to my room. 'till dinner time. yes'm] -- Requiescas in pace o email
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Steve Linford wrote:
From Deep Throat, received 17/3/04, 21:10 +0000 (GMT):
Disturbing information on one of the founders of Spamhaus.org
Not just a load of BS, but posted to NANOG anonymously, through a hijacked machine at 198.26.130.36 (The Pentagon) no less.
Has that actually been confirmed. Any machine associated with the path could have been compromised including systems with transitive trust which may not appear in the e-mail headers. Occam's Razor would say the message most likely did originated where it says it originated. But when I just checked it wasn't listed in any of the major block lists of compromised hosts (spamcop does list it as a spam source), and the Pentagon hasn't confirmed the computer was compromised.
"Sean" == Sean Donelan <sean@donelan.com> writes:
Not just a load of BS, but posted to NANOG anonymously, through a hijacked machine at 198.26.130.36 (The Pentagon) no less.
Sean> Has that actually been confirmed. Any machine associated with Sean> the path could have been compromised including systems with Sean> transitive trust which may not appear in the e-mail headers. Sean> Occam's Razor would say the message most likely did originated Sean> where it says it originated. Occam's Razor says that the .mil host is an open web proxy. What, you thought that .mil systems would be secure? Sean> But when I just checked it wasn't listed in any of the major Sean> block lists of compromised hosts (spamcop does list it as a Sean> spam source), The spamcop listing is very recent, and I'd bet a large sum it is based on nothing more than reports of that specific message. Other lists like DSBL and CBL would not list the proxy unless it is capable of being abused for CONNECT or POST to port 25. Many proxies are wide open for normal web access (which is sufficient to send email via Hotmail) but not abusable for direct SMTP use, and these proxies are not found by email-centered detection methods. -- Andrew, Supernews http://www.supernews.com
participants (21)
-
Alexei Roudnev -
Andrew - Supernews -
Bill Woodcock -
Dan Hollis -
Dave Howe -
Deep Throat -
Henry Linneweh -
Jason Slagle -
Jim Popovitch -
John Payne -
Joshua Brady -
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. -
Paul Jakma -
Peter Galbavy -
Sam Stickland -
Sean Donelan -
Stephen J. Wilcox -
Steve Linford -
Steven M. Bellovin -
up＠3.am -
William Warren