A T1 is capable of 1.55MB/s in each direction, so a dull 768DSL would only do about 1/2 the data capablity. DSL has not been around for 20 years, so that is not correct either. Bob Gibson

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Hunter Pine wrote:

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You are aware that a good percentage of the T1's you purchase nowadays

are

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just a pair of bonded 768 dsl lines, right? The phone companies have been doing that for over 20 years to save on copper.

Hunter Pine Vice President, Network Operations hunter@compuhelp.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Marr" <jmarr@twmaine.com> To: "'John Palmer (NANOG Acct)'" <nanog@adns.net> Cc: <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 9:31 PM Subject: People who purchase unproven technologies to support their Business, and whine about it. RE: To CAIS Engineers - WAKE UP AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR CUSTOMERS

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Why would anyone purchase dsl to run their business on. Let me guess,

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price was right.

-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Alex Rubenstein Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 9:03 PM To: John Palmer (NANOG Acct) Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: To CAIS Engineers - WAKE UP AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR CUSTOMERS

Welp, you are the one who picked xDSL for your business...

On Sun, 13 May 2001, John Palmer (NANOG Acct) wrote:

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<FLAME ON>

It has been a trying time at CAIS in the last few days, I'm sure.

PSINet dumped all of their DSL customers onto CAIS. Covad is the

backhaul

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provider for them both. Need I say more?

Bottom line, I dont know how many thousands of people were without service for more than a day because the whole transfer was botched.

We have a situation where we had a DSL connection from PSI and were using our own IP addresses. Problem is that no one changed the routing tables and the packets dead-ended at PSI.

Getting CAIS to fix this problem has been a nightmare. At first, PSI didnt stop announcing the routes and now that they have, it seems that CAIS will not announce the routes till Monday becuase "no one at our NOC knows how to do this and the one guy (ONE GUY IN THE WHOLE COMPANY - AND THEY ARE A NATIONWIDE PROVIDER????) who knows how doesn't work weekends."

Bottom line from CAIS:" S***W the customers, we dont work weekends. We don't care that your entire business has been dead in the water since Wednesday, you can go to H**L, we'll get to it Monday, if we feel

You really need to do your math. - 768x2 = 1536. DSL is full duplex. And yes, DSL HAS been around for 20 years. The need for broadband at inexpensive prices to the public at large has not been necessary until now, and it's expensive to set up dslams at all these phone company CO's. Not to mention that the phone companies, until recently, had a monopoly on the industry, and weren't about to introduce an inexpensive broad band solution to the public when they could make a killing off of T1 loops. /H ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gibson" <wa3pxx@pimmitrun.com> To: "Hunter Pine" <hunter@compuhelp.com> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 8:03 AM Subject: Re: People who purchase unproven technologies to support their Business, and whine about it. RE: To CAIS Engineers - WAKE UP AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR CUSTOMERS the like

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it."

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Our lawyers are looking at what actions we can take against them. It

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trickey, but we will try.

Needless to say, we will be moving our connection. I have some choice words for them when they send us our first monthly bill, which I'm certain,

may be they

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will do on weekends just fine.

IF SOMEONE IS THERE AT CAIS - GET OFF OF YOUR LAZY A** AND PUT THOSE ANNOUNCEMENTS INTO YOUR BGP4 TABLES TODAY (NOT MONDAY, NOT LATER IN THE WEEK)- THERE ARE ABOUT 6 OF YOUR CUSTOMERS (NOT JUST US) WHO ARE DEAD IN THE WATER BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO LAZY TO DO A 20 SECOND JOB.

<flame off - sorry to the list for being so loud> John