Oh come on. AV8 is pretty small, and I'll pay the fee. Though, I think $200 is pretty high for what is provided. I mean, its just a database entry after all. Right? Server operation at exchanges is paid for by server users at the exchanges. Right? So we pay Internic the outrageously high fee of $35 per year for domain registration... Doesn't seem that much different... --Dean Around 09:49 PM 10/25/1999 -0400, rumor has it that Majdi Abbas said:
Owen wrote:
While I agree with you in principal, the reality is that we live in a capitalist society, and governments are eliminating the socialist funding of these mechanisms which has allowed them to exist to date. If they are to continue to exist, they will require a source of funding. If you have an alternative that is better than user fees, please propose it. Otherwise, please recognize that this isn't an effort to nickle and dime so much as the result of multiple independent agencies being forced to self-fund their pieces of internet infrastructure as they lose their government funding.
I don't see it as being cost recovery (although it is certainly intended as such)...more as cost shifting. Here's how it'll work:
The people who will be affected will, in many cases, either pool their resources (maintainers, in this case), or get their upstreams to start handling their RADB entries.
The end result? Merit will recover a lot less of their costs than they might expect, and the larger ISPs out there will get hit hard -- suddenly they're doing a lot more administrative work than they used to have to.
Smaller ISPs and people who just don't care enough will stop using the RADB or not start in the first place if they perceive the obstacles as outweighing the benefits-- thus making it a less effective resource than it is today.
Short term, because Merit hasn't been very public about it to date, even on this mailing list (which was the first on my list), a lot of people will be receiving bills they're unaware of, and may or may not be able to get paid on time -- presuming the maintainer contact was even up to date in the first place -- so a lot of objects go away in the database, and the internet will become a much less happy place until things are resolved.
I don't have an issue with the cost recovery aspects, I just feel that this is rather short notice, and also rather poorly timed (a lot of people are still busy with y2k issues, it would have been better to wait until sometime next year).
--msa
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Some of the founders of the RADB have long since left the RADB, finding that the administrative work outweighs the benefits gained from their perspective. And that was BEFORE Merit started charging... ;-) John Patterson NTAC II Sprintlink ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com> To: Majdi Abbas <majdi@puck.nether.net>; <owen@exodus.net> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 11:45 PM Subject: Re: RADB Fees
Oh come on. AV8 is pretty small, and I'll pay the fee. Though, I think
$200 is pretty high for what is provided. I mean, its just a database entry after all. Right? Server operation at exchanges is paid for by server users at the exchanges. Right? So we pay Internic the outrageously high fee of $35 per year for domain registration... Doesn't seem that much different...
--Dean
Around 09:49 PM 10/25/1999 -0400, rumor has it that Majdi Abbas said:
Owen wrote:
While I agree with you in principal, the reality is that we live in a capitalist society, and governments are eliminating the socialist funding of these mechanisms which has allowed them to exist to date. If they are to continue to exist, they will require a source of funding. If you have an alternative that is better than user fees, please propose it. Otherwise, please recognize that this isn't an effort to nickle and dime so much as the result of multiple independent agencies being forced to self-fund their pieces of internet infrastructure as they lose their government funding.
I don't see it as being cost recovery (although it is certainly intended as such)...more as cost shifting. Here's how it'll work:
The people who will be affected will, in many cases, either pool their resources (maintainers, in this case), or get their upstreams to start handling their RADB entries.
The end result? Merit will recover a lot less of their costs than they might expect, and the larger ISPs out there will get hit hard -- suddenly they're doing a lot more administrative work than they used to have to.
Smaller ISPs and people who just don't care enough will stop using the RADB or not start in the first place if they perceive the obstacles as outweighing the benefits-- thus making it a less effective resource than it is today.
Short term, because Merit hasn't been very public about it to date, even on this mailing list (which was the first on my list), a lot of people will be receiving bills they're unaware of, and may or may not be able to get paid on time -- presuming the maintainer contact was even up to date in the first place -- so a lot of objects go away in the database, and the internet will become a much less happy place until things are resolved.
I don't have an issue with the cost recovery aspects, I just feel that this is rather short notice, and also rather poorly timed (a lot of people are still busy with y2k issues, it would have been better to wait until sometime next year).
--msa
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
Oh come on. AV8 is pretty small, and I'll pay the fee. Though, I think $200 is pretty high for what is provided. I mean, its just a database entry after all. Right? Server operation at exchanges is paid for by server users at the exchanges. Right? So we pay Internic the outrageously high fee of $35 per year for domain registration... Doesn't seem that much different...
So set your own Routing Registry and charge whatever you wish. The good folks at Merit were pretty explicit in saying that you don't have to use their registry. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Patrick Greenwell Earth is a single point of failure. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
participants (3)
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Dean Anderson -
John Patteson -
Patrick Greenwell