I've been watching the list, saw some posts, but nothing definite has been done, is there another place besides efnet where competent people are joining to chat on topic? Otherwise I would love to see people on freenode or oftc Kyle
I briefly contacted the previous maintainer of #nanog on freenode but he seems to have dropped out of sight again. We can talk in the channel now but nobody has ops. I am emailing him again today; if he doesn't respond, and if there are no objections, I'll work with freenode to get the channel resurrected. If anyone wants to object, please do so now. Kyle Lutze wrote:
I've been watching the list, saw some posts, but nothing definite has been done, is there another place besides efnet where competent people are joining to chat on topic? Otherwise I would love to see people on freenode or oftc
Kyle
well, unfortunately the only way to get the chan dropped and added back to us is by going through the steering committee and having one of them talk to rob levin, (lilo, levin@freenode.net). Otherwise Rob is going to lock it and foward it to ##nanog. I have that chan, and am perfectly willing to give it up to somebody more involved with nanog, but I'm hoping one of the committee members steps in so we don't go through some B.S. stuff like lilo likes to do (sorry, bad dealings with him from past, ignore my distaste for him) Kyle Albert Meyer wrote:
I briefly contacted the previous maintainer of #nanog on freenode but he seems to have dropped out of sight again. We can talk in the channel now but nobody has ops. I am emailing him again today; if he doesn't respond, and if there are no objections, I'll work with freenode to get the channel resurrected. If anyone wants to object, please do so now.
Kyle Lutze wrote:
I've been watching the list, saw some posts, but nothing definite has been done, is there another place besides efnet where competent people are joining to chat on topic? Otherwise I would love to see people on freenode or oftc
Kyle
.
Having read the foregoing, and as a regular reader of this list, along with my colleague. If there are issues regarding channels being locked on a network etc, and no-one is willing to do something constructive to enable free chat again, then as my colleague and I also run an Irc network (albeit very small) we would be more than willing to host a #nanog channel on it, if this would prove of benefit to the list members etc.. Our network is certainly capable of handling in excess of 1500+ chatters at any one time. Any one who may be interested in this as a possible solution, please let me know off-list or discuss amongst yourselves and see what you feel would be the best solution for you. Barry. -----Original Message----- From: euhosts@mars.euhosts.net [mailto:euhosts@mars.euhosts.net] On Behalf Of Kyle Lutze Sent: 30 December 2005 01:54 To: Albert Meyer Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: live chat with other nanog'ers well, unfortunately the only way to get the chan dropped and added back to us is by going through the steering committee and having one of them talk to rob levin, (lilo, levin@freenode.net). Otherwise Rob is going to lock it and foward it to ##nanog. I have that chan, and am perfectly willing to give it up to somebody more involved with nanog, but I'm hoping one of the committee members steps in so we don't go through some B.S. stuff like lilo likes to do (sorry, bad dealings with him from past, ignore my distaste for him) Kyle Albert Meyer wrote:
I briefly contacted the previous maintainer of #nanog on freenode but he seems to have dropped out of sight again. We can talk in the channel now but nobody has ops. I am emailing him again today; if he doesn't respond, and if there are no objections, I'll work with freenode to get the channel resurrected. If anyone wants to object, please do so now.
Kyle Lutze wrote:
I've been watching the list, saw some posts, but nothing definite has been done, is there another place besides efnet where competent people are joining to chat on topic? Otherwise I would love to see people on freenode or oftc
Kyle
.
Is there a possibility that this thread can move to nanog-futures or does it not qualify for it? -- William Leibzon Elan Networks william@elan.net
william(at)elan.net wrote:
Is there a possibility that this thread can move to nanog-futures or does it not qualify for it?
whatever it would take to get some steering guys to register that chan and give some of us access so we can have good chats, without script kiddies coming in, I'm all for it Kyle
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 19:04:42 -0800, Kyle Lutze proclaimed...
whatever it would take to get some steering guys to register that chan and give some of us access so we can have good chats, without script kiddies coming in, I'm all for it
I'm part of another "og"ish type channel on freenode. One thing we found was that having a normal, anyone can join, type of channel works well. But then having other private, permission-only, channels, with vetting could be a good idea too. Perhaps that can apply here. It's a much small community, but the data is prolly as sensitive as that which would be exchanged by nanog folks.
Completely agree with that.. With my network, anyone can register their user name, and create a registered channel, how many they create is up to them to a maximum of 10, The channel owner is the person who registers the channel, and the owner can set additional staff as they wish.. In addition, channels can be set as private, secret, as well as requiring a 'key' to be accessed, network staff do not and will not interfere with any channel running, except to prevent illegal activity when reported to us. As a small network, we do not attract 'script kiddies' and we run a small friendly group of general chatters, as well as some staff with greater technical knowledge. In general, at least one network administrator is around to assist with enquiries, as well as global operators, but no member of staff will enter a channel unless invited to do so, or a list member of nanog.. and then will only enter as a normal chatter with no staff override privileges. That to me seems the best way for any live chat channel to run, and with the least headaches for all concerned.. Barry. -----Original Message----- From: euhosts@mars.euhosts.net [mailto:euhosts@mars.euhosts.net] On Behalf Of eric Sent: 30 December 2005 03:16 To: Kyle Lutze Cc: william(at)elan.net; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: live chat with other nanog'ers On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 19:04:42 -0800, Kyle Lutze proclaimed...
whatever it would take to get some steering guys to register that chan and give some of us access so we can have good chats, without script kiddies coming in, I'm all for it
I'm part of another "og"ish type channel on freenode. One thing we found was that having a normal, anyone can join, type of channel works well. But then having other private, permission-only, channels, with vetting could be a good idea too. Perhaps that can apply here. It's a much small community, but the data is prolly as sensitive as that which would be exchanged by nanog folks.
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 04:18:02PM -0800, Kyle Lutze wrote:
I've been watching the list, saw some posts, but nothing definite has been done, is there another place besides efnet where competent people are joining to chat on topic? Otherwise I would love to see people on freenode or oftc
I think that a few people here may be under some misconceptions about #nanog on efnet. There are actually many very experienced network operators who hang out there, including frequent nanog attendees and presenters (along with the usual collection of random twits that you'll find anywhere in life, but what are you going to do). However, I believe you will find that most people are there to unwind, not to discuss networking or to answer questions about routers. As such, nanog list readers who wander in expecting "on topic conversation" or advice about configuring their 2600, rather than general chatter about cell phones and cars, are probably going to be disappointed by the reception they receive. Realistically, most networking issues have already been talked about to death, and most people just don't have anything new to contribute. As far as alternatives go, I think you may find that channels like #ciscohelp on efnet are more in line with what people here are expecting in the way of "on topic conversation". Of course you are always welcome to start your own channel on any of a wide variety of networks, as others have already done in the past, but these tend to come and go with some frequency. Having said all that, by all means if #nanog on efnet doesn't fit your tastes, no one is twisting anyone's arm to be there. :) -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
I think that a few people here may be under some misconceptions about #nanog on efnet. There are actually many very experienced network operators who hang out there, including frequent nanog attendees and presenters (along with the usual collection of random twits that you'll find anywhere in life, but what are you going to do).
However, I believe you will find that most people are there to unwind, not to discuss networking or to answer questions about routers. As such, nanog list readers who wander in expecting "on topic conversation" or advice about configuring their 2600, rather than general chatter about cell phones and cars, are probably going to be disappointed by the reception they receive. Realistically, most networking issues have already been talked about to death, and most people just don't have anything new to contribute.
My problem with #nanog on efnet is not that there is off topic chatter with people unwinding, its when you go in their to ask a question (such as I had forgotten what AS stood for and asked really fast) and you get crap answers, for example: AppleBoy` question on some keyterms used on the list, what is an AS? xkev what is an AS? TestACL typo for ASS xkev ashkie, anal suppressor xkev alk;hr xkev .. AS: anal suppressor and it basically went on like that. So, new chan, perhaps with only decent people in it. Kyle
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 07:51:31PM -0800, Kyle Lutze wrote:
My problem with #nanog on efnet is not that there is off topic chatter with people unwinding, its when you go in their to ask a question (such as I had forgotten what AS stood for and asked really fast) and you get crap answers, for example:
AppleBoy` question on some keyterms used on the list, what is an AS? xkev what is an AS? TestACL typo for ASS xkev ashkie, anal suppressor xkev alk;hr xkev .. AS: anal suppressor
and it basically went on like that. So, new chan, perhaps with only decent people in it.
Like I said, #nanog is not an appropriate place for absurdly novice questions. The people you mention above are regular nanog attendees and experienced network operators (actually, very experienced), and you are not only wasting their time you are intruding on their conversation by coming to that channel to ask silly questions. That is not intended to be mean, that is simply the way it is. It sounds like what you are really looking for is a channel that is geared towards helping the less experienced without giving sarcastic answers, in which case I stand by the recommendation of #ciscohelp. If in doubt, #nanog is probably not the place for you. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 07:51:31PM -0800, Kyle Lutze wrote:
My problem with #nanog on efnet is not that there is off topic chatter with people unwinding, its when you go in their to ask a question (such as I had forgotten what AS stood for and asked really fast) and you get crap answers, for example:
AppleBoy` question on some keyterms used on the list, what is an AS? xkev what is an AS? TestACL typo for ASS xkev ashkie, anal suppressor xkev alk;hr xkev .. AS: anal suppressor
and it basically went on like that. So, new chan, perhaps with only decent people in it.
Like I said, #nanog is not an appropriate place for absurdly novice questions. The people you mention above are regular nanog attendees and experienced network operators (actually, very experienced), and you are not only wasting their time you are intruding on their conversation by coming to that channel to ask silly questions. That is not intended to be mean, that is simply the way it is.
It sounds like what you are really looking for is a channel that is geared towards helping the less experienced without giving sarcastic answers, in which case I stand by the recommendation of #ciscohelp. If in doubt, #nanog is probably not the place for you.
I'm no idiot, I've just been having a pounding headache recently and some withdrawal effects from some meds and couldn't remember off hand. Still, it's an annoying way to be treated being new to the list and hoping to get a bit more involved. Kyle
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 07:51:31PM -0800, Kyle Lutze wrote:
My problem with #nanog on efnet is not that there is off topic chatter with people unwinding, its when you go in their to ask a question (such as I had forgotten what AS stood for and asked really fast) and you get crap answers, for example:
AppleBoy` question on some keyterms used on the list, what is an AS? xkev what is an AS? TestACL typo for ASS xkev ashkie, anal suppressor xkev alk;hr xkev .. AS: anal suppressor
and it basically went on like that. So, new chan, perhaps with only decent people in it.
Like I said, #nanog is not an appropriate place for absurdly novice questions. The people you mention above are regular nanog attendees and experienced network operators (actually, very experienced), and you are not only wasting their time you are intruding on their conversation by coming to that channel to ask silly questions. That is not intended to be mean, that is simply the way it is.
No matter what the question was, how experienced they are or what you think they intended, I find such behavior as seen above to be inappropriate and something that shows true character of those on that channel. Now, it is possible that if they were in totally in private company (private irc server & channel) and definitely outside work, it may have been understood as appropriate type of a joke for that company, however that is a public channel with people coming in and seeing this behavior just shows the type of company it really is that exist on that channel. Unfortunately this is also rather common for many channels on eifnet (and several other large networks) and this played big role in why I stopped participating in irc some 6+ years ago. Now the only IRC channels I occasionally visit are in fact on freenode that have to do with some open-source projects I participate and like many others I do find freenode to be amazingly good place safe from both behavior & people found at efnet. I don't know if its possible to create good professional nanog channel there that is favorable to newcomers and can have serious talk by experienced people (and there are definitely things in network engineering you can talk about no matter how good you are - if you think there are not, then it just shows your own lock of knowledge and interest in the subject), but I do wish all the luck to people who want to try. P.S. Yes I did want this thread to stop but seeing as its holiday time... Well, I'll leave up to the moderators to decide if and where this conversation should continue. -- William Leibzon Elan Networks william@elan.net
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:56:43 PST, "william(at)elan.net" said:
No matter what the question was, how experienced they are or what you think they intended, I find such behavior as seen above to be inappropriate and something that shows true character of those on that channel.
I've said it before, but it apparently needs repeating: You're talking about a group of people who are paid large sums of money for their ability to communicate with inanimate objects made of melted sand. Ever since the first shaman back in caveman days, this skill has been understood to go hand-in-hand with weirdness and odd behavior ("Father, why does talks-to-trees hop around humming to himself?" "Because he talks to trees...") ObNANOG: talks-to-trees is still in the gene pool - his descendants include talks-to-copper and talks-to-IOS. Anybody who didn't just fall out of the tree that talks-to-trees was having a chat with knows this can become an operational issue....
Cracking analogy, Valdis. I'll use that..now can we put this frankly soporific thread down like an unwanted kitten? On 12/30/05, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:56:43 PST, "william(at)elan.net" said:
No matter what the question was, how experienced they are or what you think they intended, I find such behavior as seen above to be inappropriate and something that shows true character of those on that channel.
I've said it before, but it apparently needs repeating:
You're talking about a group of people who are paid large sums of money for their ability to communicate with inanimate objects made of melted sand. Ever since the first shaman back in caveman days, this skill has been understood to go hand-in-hand with weirdness and odd behavior ("Father, why does talks-to-trees hop around humming to himself?" "Because he talks to trees...")
ObNANOG: talks-to-trees is still in the gene pool - his descendants include talks-to-copper and talks-to-IOS. Anybody who didn't just fall out of the tree that talks-to-trees was having a chat with knows this can become an operational issue....
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, Alexander Harrowell wrote:
Cracking analogy, Valdis. I'll use that..now can we put this frankly soporific thread down like an unwanted kitten?
Presumably you mean "gently, to its sibs/parents"? My experience with #nanog on Efnet has been that the channel is totally off topic unless there's an incident going on, or an -interesting- question is asked. I'm a bit bemused by the expectation that #nanog should be all on topic, all the time - it's an extension of the hallway track, which is certainly not even close to all on topic at any time. cheers! ========================================================================== "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."
On Fri, Dec 30, 2005 at 10:47:01AM +0000, Alexander Harrowell wrote:
Cracking analogy, Valdis. I'll use that..now can we put this frankly soporific thread down like an unwanted kitten?
I object. I'll take that kitten. (And ask my sister the kitten-nurser to drive down and take it away before the kids get attached to it or I sneeze my brains out.) But, yes, moderately good analogy. And, yes, stop this thread at the next node, eh? -- Joe Yao ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
participants (11)
-
Albert Meyer -
Alexander Harrowell -
Barry J. Featherstone -
eric -
Gwendolynn ferch Elydyr -
Joseph S D Yao -
Kyle Lutze -
Richard A Steenbergen -
Susan Harris -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu -
william(at)elan.net