Hi, I've scanned this thread and I think most of the intelligent things that can be said have been said. However, since Ebone was mentioned a couple of times perhaps I should give one more comment: Ebone is aware of the need for global connectivity and we divide the world of ISPs into four: 1.Those we serve as customers and take payment from, 2.Those we do no-settlement peering with, 3.Those we pay to for connectivity and transit and 4.Those with whom we have no direct relation but to whom we connect via 1, 2 or 3. For obvious reasons, we want to increase the number of ISPs in 1. and to reduce or perhaps in the longer run eliminate the payment for category 3. But we don't have T3 lines to four or seven US NAPs at present. In category 2 we try to put peers in the literal meaning of the word: ISPs of a comparable size as measured in backbone bandwith and geographical span. At this time, it looks like there are very few such networks in Europe but that may change. Also, since our network and other networks grow all the time, we don't have permanent and exact criteria for when we peer but we do try to negotiate fair deals with all potential peers. There is no doubt that if we establish direct peerings with networks in category 4 at one of our PoPs which to a large extent are co-located with with the major European exchange points, then it would improve service for both parties as often the hop count and delays would be reduced. But its is difficult to offer no-settlement peering to an ISP in, say Germany when we ask other German ISPs to be customers since part of the Ebone offering is traffic over our international backbone (the other part being transit). I think that as long as the cost of international lines are much higher than the cost of national lines you'll find ISPs with international backbones will be keen to establish financially balanced deals on the use of those backbones. More information on Ebone at www.ebone.net. Frode --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Frode Greisen, managing director phone: +45 3587 8828 Ebone Inc. fax: +45 3587 8801 c/o UNI-C Vermundsgade 5 DK 2100 Copenhagen, Denmark e-mail: frode.greisen@uni-c.dk --------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Jun John Wu wrote:

===== Andy lague previously wrote: ====

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At 03:02 AM 10/27/96 MET, Peter Lothberg wrote:

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So what's the problem? Basically, one organisation, Ebone, which operates a fairly large pan-European net, won't peer with others. This means that European customers connected to non-Ebone connected providers like Global One lack European connectivity without going through the US. Ebone provides great connectivity at cost, but the big US NSPs making presences in Europe naturally don't want to buy bandwidth from someone like Ebone. We'll see what happens.

Ebone is not the only way to get European connectivity without going to the US. There are many exchange points in Europe providing local traffic exchange. Global-One participates in some of these with more in the works. Ebone is a good last resort (not to be read as default) path to obscure destinations or to networks that will not peer with commercial networks.

Yes there are going to be more, many more peerings throughout the Europe, and AsiaPacific, and Americas...

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I don't think this is correct. Ebone peers with other pan-european networks of comparable size, IBM, BT and EUnet comes to my mind.

G1 is a customer of Ebone and connects in Paris.

Correct. Also Stockholm.

Maybe peering with EBONE is also a future possibility when we have more common presence and comparable size. Andy is right, former Transpac Sweden is now part of Global IP, and they also have a circuit to EBONE at DGIX.

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Regards, Andy - speaking as a former Global-One employee

Thanks Andy. When is that lunch going to be? :-)

Jun -- Jun (John) Wu | Voice: (703)818-5431 Supervisor - Global IP Systems & Services | Fax: (703)818-5282 Global One Communications L.L.C. | Email: jun@gsl.net Reston, VA 22096 | URL: http://wolfox.gsl.net/jun