Yes America defiantly isn't what it used to be or what it was meant to be. However Guantanamo isn't America. Some of them are starting to be tried now too. Sklyarov is on bail. Although I think its time he either be tried or for them to drop it. But as far America, things need to be changed to restore our civil rights and other injustices that are going on here. On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 01:29, Pekka Savola wrote:

I shouldn't be feeding a troll but in case this was serious..

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Ricardo "Rick" Gonzalez wrote:

...

...

No comments, check the url

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/27/ddos_mafia_busted/

I'm happy some of these criminals sent to jail!

You know, here in America, we have this concept called "innocent until proven guilty". What country are you from?

The America is not what it used to be. Welcome to the 21st century.

Have those guys rotting at Guantanamo been proven guilty? What was the deal with Sklyarov (http://www.freesklyarov.org/)? Etc. Thornton Cierra Group www.cierragroup.com Efficient Licensing and Consulting

I hate to really comment on this as well....but this is old news...the SecurityFocus report was released a few days ago and anyone who has actually gotten info from the Southern District of Ohio on the evidence could easily show that this is more than just a "innocent man made to look guilty" sort of case, Paul Ashley (ArGG) was the owner of FooNET / CIT Hosting and he ran all of this right in front of many of our faces on IRC and I know I personally as well as many others have been hit by not directly from him but his counter-parts...Joshua Schichtel (EMP, CIT-Joshua) and Lee Walker (sorCe) I never did get to find out who Jonathan Hall (Rain) was and I suppose that is a good thing as the two above caused enough damage...Joshua Schichtel probably the most...and the ways they are doing this also highly effects our responsabilities to keep our customers machines clean, firewalled and virtually not there in the face of the internet...I wish the great firewall of china actually started filtering this DoS as it does many other things...lets just start with spam. As far as civil liberties go...this was a treasonist act where when you commit treason (If your a citizen such as a couple who are down there were) you loose all rights, I don't care if your now forced to live in solitary confinement for 100 years while you wait for your trial. And those who arn't citizens carried out terrorist attacks and are now PoW's (Hmmm was Al Quida ever at the Geneva Convention..don't think so, so they get no rights either) the PoW's are actually treated better than they would ever be in the home countries. Lets just go ahead and change the pre-amble right now to read "Life, liberty and the persuit of all who threaten it" because I am not backing down to give civil rights and liberties to terrorists...hell where were our rights when they decided to attack us? Joshua Brady On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 01:52:06 -0700, Thornton <thornton-nanog@cierragroup.com> wrote:

Yes America defiantly isn't what it used to be or what it was meant to be.

However Guantanamo isn't America. Some of them are starting to be tried now too.

Sklyarov is on bail. Although I think its time he either be tried or for them to drop it.

But as far America, things need to be changed to restore our civil rights and other injustices that are going on here.

On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 01:29, Pekka Savola wrote:

...

I shouldn't be feeding a troll but in case this was serious..

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Ricardo "Rick" Gonzalez wrote:

...

...

No comments, check the url

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/27/ddos_mafia_busted/

I'm happy some of these criminals sent to jail!

You know, here in America, we have this concept called "innocent until proven guilty". What country are you from?

The America is not what it used to be. Welcome to the 21st century.

Have those guys rotting at Guantanamo been proven guilty? What was the deal with Sklyarov (http://www.freesklyarov.org/)? Etc. Thornton Cierra Group www.cierragroup.com Efficient Licensing and Consulting

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Thornton wrote:

Sklyarov is on bail. Although I think its time he either be tried or for them to drop it.

Welcome to two years ago. The good guys won that case. Where have you been?

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Len Sassaman wrote:

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Pekka Savola wrote:

...

The America is not what it used to be. Welcome to the 21st century.

Have those guys rotting at Guantanamo been proven guilty? What was the deal with Sklyarov (http://www.freesklyarov.org/)? Etc.

The "deal" with Sklyarov was that the charges against him were dropped, possibly in part due to the large demonstrations we organized against his arrest. Elcomsoft, his company, was tried, and found not guilty.

What, precisely, is your point?

(It was a done deal, finished a long time ago, but worth citing in any case.) Being thrown in jail for 3 weeks (or thereabouts), and held in the Land of Freedom without allowing to go home (and family) for about 15 months (or so) afterwards doesn't sound something like "innocent until proven guilty" to me. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings