Hmm - who said they had to be physically separate? Being a layer 2 centric network has allowed us to extend device management functionality to not only the core, but also straight out to the edge CPE equipment - every piece of (non-legacy) CPE that we have has a 1918 address on it that the customer cannot see. The only incremental cost is the management of the management network - almost minimal, as the IP tracking scheme that we have extends nicely into the /32 range. There is also the required bandwidth, and the need for additional PVC's to the customer prem (these are 64k UBR PVC's) - again, minimal when you own the layer 2 network. Just my 2 cents. PS - these views are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my employer. -----Original Message----- From: jlewis@lewis.org [mailto:jlewis@lewis.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:56 AM To: jerry scharf Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: it's here sites) spanning multiple states or countries. Not everyone can afford to build both a backbone and a separate management WAN. Putting management in 1918 space is ok at one location, but gets tricky on a large network. Do we then also buy/maintain VPN hardware to connect all the various 1918 management networks to the NOC?