Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy. I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet? ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010, Tarig Yassin wrote:
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
No one person or entity controls "the Internet", which itself is just a large collection of interconnected public and private networks that use the same protocols to communicate with each other. Many government entities exert some degree of control over the connectivity to, from, and within their contries. This ranges from overt restriction of access to certain sites, to overt/covert monitoring of user activity. Numerous examples have been discussed here over the years (China, Pakistan, Iran, Burma/Myanmar, Australia, India... the list goes on and on). Discussions related to the political reasons for such control are likely off topic for this list. In the case of certain websites in the USA being forbidden from IP addresses listed as being registered to a Sudanese entity, that is the result either of a choice not to accept connections from Sudanese IP blocks (to the extent that they can be identified) or the site has content and is within the sphere of influence of the US government, which maintains a list of contries with whom they either do not have direct diplomatic relations (Iran, North Korea) or they keep at arms' length for other reasons (Syria, Sudan, Somalia, etc). jms
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 08:24:27PM +0300, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com> wrote a message of 27 lines which said:
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
It is not "the Internet", it is just some Web sites in the USA which, for local reasons, ban access from Sudan. The Internet still works. And, on the Internet, any Web site can unilaterally decide to refuse access from country X or country Y, either because a *local* law mandates it or because they just feel that way. Go to Web sites in Japan or Costa-Rica and I assume everything will be OK.
And why not the ICCAN take this reponsibity as an International organization not USA government?
Since the ICANN is nothing more than a puppet of the US government, I don't see the improvment it would make.
On Jul 25, 2010, at 13:24, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com> wrote:
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
No one. To be more clear, no on person, company, government, or any other entity controls "the Internet". Not even ICANN. Also, I am interested in examples of sites that the US gov't has blocked or otherwise somehow limited access. Please exclude sites owned by the US gov't itself. (Any entity which owns a web server can configure the ACLs on that sever however they plz as far as I'm concerned.) -- TTFN, patrick
probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge. What if a large orginization which has an infrstructure in many countires, in which regulations the will comply, in terms to ban other countries accessing to thier Internet resources. my regards, -- Tarig Y. Adam
From: patrick@ianai.net Subject: Re: Who controlls the Internet? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:55:56 -0400 To: nanog@nanog.org
On Jul 25, 2010, at 13:24, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com> wrote:
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
No one.
To be more clear, no on person, company, government, or any other entity controls "the Internet". Not even ICANN.
Also, I am interested in examples of sites that the US gov't has blocked or otherwise somehow limited access. Please exclude sites owned by the US gov't itself. (Any entity which owns a web server can configure the ACLs on that sever however they plz as far as I'm concerned.)
-- TTFN, patrick
_________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com> wrote:
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
The truth to your question is, anybody who wants to. Hackers, activists, governments, terrorists all have the ability to control it. But probably not all at the same time. With the increase in irresponsible security disclosures by folks such as Tavis Ormandy, power and control is very much being handed to "the people". I have been campaigning for a while to get tighter laws introduced on irresponsible security disclosures, to give the government more control over the internet. Andrew Wallace
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 12:58:01PM -0700, andrew.wallace wrote:
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com> wrote:
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
The truth to your question is, anybody who wants to. Hackers, activists, governments, terrorists all have the ability to control it. But probably not all at the same time.
With the increase in irresponsible security disclosures by folks such as Tavis Ormandy, power and control is very much being handed to "the people".
I have been campaigning for a while to get tighter laws introduced on irresponsible security disclosures, to give the government more control over the internet.
Which government? There are rather a lot of them, and they all have a legitimate interest in control over the internet (or at least their chunk of it. Good luck deciding where their chunk ends though).
Andrew Wallace
-----Original Message----- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.west@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:15 PM To: 'andrew.wallace' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet? I thought it was Kim Jong-il. At least that was what was on the memo............. Bob- -----Original Message----- From: andrew.wallace [mailto:andrew.wallace@rocketmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 3:58 PM To: tariq198487@hotmail.com Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Who controlls the Internet? On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com> wrote:
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
The truth to your question is, anybody who wants to. Hackers, activists, governments, terrorists all have the ability to control it. But probably not all at the same time. With the increase in irresponsible security disclosures by folks such as Tavis Ormandy, power and control is very much being handed to "the people". I have been campaigning for a while to get tighter laws introduced on irresponsible security disclosures, to give the government more control over the internet. Andrew Wallace
I thought that Randy Bush won it from Paul Vixie in a poker game. Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge.
ALL companies that operate in the US are bound by law to abide by restrictions that are defined at http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/ and elsewhere. Failure to abide by those laws can result in criminal sanctions (that is, being thrown in jail for years). However, the US is not the only country that restricts who does business with whom. I suspect you'll find pretty much every country in the world has a similar list in one form or another. In many cases, and depending on context, companies can obtain licenses that permit the provision of content and services to countries and people that are under sanction, but those companies have to do the work and I suspect most find it isn't worth the effort. In addition, Intellectual Property owners may decide that they want to deny access to content for arbitrary reasons. Examples of this outside of the Internet are region encoded DVDs. These restrictions are determined by business models. The issue isn't that the US has these restrictions, rather it is that there is a lot of useful content that is generated in and/or distributed from the US. One could argue that this encourages creation of and distribution channels for useful content outside the US...
What if a large orginization which has an infrstructure in many countires, in which regulations the will comply, in terms to ban other countries accessing to thier Internet resources.
As has been pointed out, the Internet is a set of interconnected public and private networks. Each of those networks has their own rules about who they'll grant access and what resources they'll make available. Regards, -drc
On 25 July 2010 21:05, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com> wrote:
probabaly every web server in USA e.g. Google, Verisign and sourceforge.
In this case you will most likely discover that these are blocked by the
service provider at your end and not by Google et al.
What if a large orginization which has an infrstructure in many countires, in which regulations the will comply, in terms to ban other countries accessing to thier Internet resources.
The local laws/regulations take precedence in each country and they must abide to what's been set. This however isnt a concern to many since not many countries impose such strict restrictions.
./TJ
The local laws/regulations take precedence in each country and they must abide to what's been set. This however isnt a concern to many since not many countries impose such strict restrictions.
I thought most countries had trade and export restrictions of one sort or another? Best Regards, Nathan Eisenberg
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
The global abstract Internet ? nobody. Your government/service provider and/or the government/service provider of the destination you are trying to reach may restrict/block/redirect/tweak/tamper/sniff/shape the free flow of packets. Have you ever considered trying to use Tor ? (http://www.torproject.org/ well if you can get to it :-) PS. ICANN has no responsibility or operational role denying access or services. Regards
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 01:21:46PM -0500, Jorge Amodio wrote:
PS. ICANN has no responsibility or operational role denying access or services.
Regards
except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role. it has taken on root server operations for some years now and is trying to take over root zone editorial control. --bil
PS. ICANN has no responsibility or operational role denying access or services.
Regards
except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role. it has taken on root server operations for some years now and is trying to take over root zone editorial control.
Sure, no doubt there are some groups under the ICANN umbrella desperate to expand their "operational" role including the last move about creating a DNS-CERT or GAC-ifing every decision. Besides L server I don't think ICANN has much control of the rest of the root servers. Amen about the root zone. I'd love to see how viable and what it would take to "go Postel", screw ICANN and declare independence from it. I'd say that today nobody has full control but among some organizations (including now the other competing traveling circus aka IGF) many want to have it. Cheers Jorge
Bill, On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:21 PM, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role.
ICANN, since its inception, has been the IANA functions _operator_. It inherited the role IANA staff performed prior to ICANN's creation. As far as I am aware, other than DNSSEC stuff (e.g., handling the root KSK), there has not been a significant change in the operational role ICANN performs beyond what has been requested by the community (if any).
it has taken on root server operations for some years now
Yes. I think the folks who run L can be pretty proud of their achievements. Want to compare root server operations? :-)
and is trying to take over root zone editorial control.
Actually, no, it isn't. The US Department of Commerce has been pretty clear that they are happy with the current model in which ICANN receives and vets root zone change requests, DoC NTIA authorizes those requests, and VeriSign edits the root zone and publishes it. Despite some portions of the ICANN community not being happy with this state of affairs, I'd be surprised if this changed anytime soon and I'm not aware of anyone in ICANN actively pursuing a change. Regards, -drc (no longer working for ICANN, but feeling a need to defend it against baseless bashing)
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:57:26AM +0200, David Conrad wrote:
Bill,
On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:21 PM, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
except ICANN has presumed for itself an operational role.
ICANN, since its inception, has been the IANA functions _operator_. It inherited the role IANA staff performed prior to ICANN's creation. As far as I am aware, other than DNSSEC stuff (e.g., handling the root KSK), there has not been a significant change in the operational role ICANN performs beyond what has been requested by the community (if any).
and here we see how english is a poor language. yes, ICANN is the current IANA functions _operator_. The IANA _never_ ran/operated network infrastructure (root server operations) prior to ICANNs assumption of the role. This is the distinction. Perhaps w/o a difference.
it has taken on root server operations for some years now
Yes. I think the folks who run L can be pretty proud of their achievements. Want to compare root server operations? :-)
Yes they do a fine job. But root server operations is not in ICANNs charter or mission. Their stated role, when they took it over from USC was as a temporary steward, until they could find someone to take it on. Only later did they back away from that statement and claimed it for their own.
and is trying to take over root zone editorial control.
Actually, no, it isn't. The US Department of Commerce has been pretty clear that they are happy with the current model in which ICANN receives and vets root zone change requests, DoC NTIA authorizes those requests, and VeriSign edits the root zone and publishes it. Despite some portions of the ICANN community not being happy with this state of affairs, I'd be surprised if this changed anytime soon and I'm not aware of anyone in ICANN actively pursuing a change.
You describe the current state of affairs very well. From a reasonably recent counterpoint, there were several models proposed for the recently augmented root zone mgmt task. One of the proposed (and rejected) models showed a much larger role for ICANN in the root zone generation process. Those of us who reviewed these models (in the NTIA NoI) saw this as a (perhaps reasonable) way to reduce the roles played by the other two actors.
Regards, -drc (no longer working for ICANN, but feeling a need to defend it against baseless bashing)
Regards, --bill (not baseless bashing, just pointing out some facts)
Bill, I suspect this thread has degenerated to the point of irrelevance, so this will be my last comment. Feel free to have the last word. On Jul 26, 2010, at 2:30 AM, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
yes, ICANN is the current IANA functions _operator_. The IANA _never_ ran/operated network infrastructure (root server operations) prior to ICANNs assumption of the role. This is the distinction. Perhaps w/o a difference.
As when IANA was operated by USC, IANA staff (still) do not run root server operations. The ICANN group that run the root server (and do other DNS things) are distinct from the folks who do IANA stuff. I would argue that IANA staff have always had an operational role in the management of the various registries and any additional operational activities performed by ICANN were requested by the community. I'm sure you disagree.
Yes they do a fine job. But root server operations is not in ICANNs charter or mission. Their stated role, when they took it over from USC was as a temporary steward, until they could find someone to take it on. Only later did they back away from that statement and claimed it for their own.
True, if somewhat negatively skewed and abbreviated. If I understand correctly (since I was doing other things in the timeframe we're talking here), a set of new root servers were created to fill up the 512 byte response and a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) between NTIA/NIST and ICANN was undertaken to establish where the new root server(s) were to be distributed (among many other things, see http://www.icann.org/en/committees/dns-root/crada.htm). However, my understanding (since I wasn't involved in root operations back then) was that no real progress was made on the CRADA. Folks who were involved in that CRADA might wish to correct me or expand on why. Without resolution of the CRADA, I'd imagine ICANN acting unilaterally would have generated far more criticism.
and is trying to take over root zone editorial control. You describe the current state of affairs very well.
Yes, you used present tense so describing current state of affairs seemed appropriate. Regards, -drc
On Jul 25, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I don't know of USG blacklists. There are certainly blacklists looked at by operators; they do this for their own reasons, not due to government pressure. Understand that the kind of thing that would motivate the USG to blacklist a country from looking at a given web site would be if the web site displayed information that would enable that country to threaten the US. There is information that is covered by a set of regulations called ITAR; it doesn't say what country can't receive information, it says what information a US citizen cannot legally communicate to anyone that is not a US citizen. I suspect that what is really happening here is that the Sudan has a redirect in place that blocks information it considers its citizens should not be able to access. The web page you see is designed to get you to wonder about those evil devils, the Americans, rather than those who are actually blocking the traffic.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
Nobody, and everybody.
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 08:24:27PM +0300, Tarig Yassin wrote:
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
thats a nice, vague, and non-supportable message that is phrased to generate anger. which web sites, what web proxies, and which orgin IP addresses are in question here?
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
the brief answer is - lots of people. ISPs, Telecoms companies, Government censors and regulators, your content providers, access providers (the Internet cafe), and your parents.
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
Hi Tarig This is a bit like asking who controls friendship. Of course nobody does. However if certain friends of yours are going to impose conditions on you, you have to go along with it or find new friends. One way round it is to use other friends as interlocutors, simply by using proxy services, or, in more intense situations, something like Kaleidoscope http://www.isoc-ny.org/?p=1485 j On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com>wrote:
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com Secretary - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org ---------------------------------------------------------------
Tarig, Just going out on a limb here, but who says the sites in the US are blocking instead of the country itself? Maybe the Sudan government is blocking access to the sites for whatever reason. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Joly MacFie [mailto:joly@punkcast.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:12 PM To: Tarig Yassin Cc: nanog Subject: Re: Who controlls the Internet? Hi Tarig This is a bit like asking who controls friendship. Of course nobody does. However if certain friends of yours are going to impose conditions on you, you have to go along with it or find new friends. One way round it is to use other friends as interlocutors, simply by using proxy services, or, in more intense situations, something like Kaleidoscope http://www.isoc-ny.org/?p=1485 j On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Tarig Yassin <tariq198487@hotmail.com>wrote:
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com Secretary - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org ---------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.west@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:56 PM To: 'Tarig Yassin' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet? Each individual government seems to control the information the enters or leaves their borders. Do a search for "Internet Censorship Wikileaks". Every government has their own set of morals and standards and politically motivated black list. Certainly the USA wants to swagger and force its will on not only its own people but the entire planet, but they are not alone. Australia, China, North Korea, Germany........ Etc............ All with their own agenda. It would be great if there was ONE entity that controlled content and each country had to abide by their decisions in order to have access to the backbone but that's only just a dream at this point. The flat earth that should be the flow of information needs to be demanded by everyone. That's my 13 cents worth. (Inflation sucks) But who am I but just a thinking and caring animal of this planet? Bob- -----Original Message----- From: Tarig Yassin [mailto:tariq198487@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:24 PM To: nanog Subject: Who controlls the Internet? Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy. I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet? ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
On Jul 25, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Robert West wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.west@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:56 PM To: 'Tarig Yassin' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet?
Each individual government seems to control the information the enters or leaves their borders. Do a search for "Internet Censorship Wikileaks". Every government has their own set of morals and standards and politically motivated black list. Certainly the USA wants to swagger and force its will on not only its own people but the entire planet, but they are not alone. Australia, China, North Korea, Germany........ Etc............ All with their own agenda. It would be great if there was ONE entity that controlled content and each country had to abide by their decisions in order to have access to the backbone but that's only just a dream at this point.
Dream ? That's a nightmare. It would rapidly lead to the worst of both worlds. Internet rules would be made like intellectual property rules, in the dead of night by non-elected government bureaucrats at the behest of corporate lobbyists. Study the history of ACTA if you doubt me. Regards Marshall
The flat earth that should be the flow of information needs to be demanded by everyone.
That's my 13 cents worth.
(Inflation sucks)
But who am I but just a thinking and caring animal of this planet?
Bob-
-----Original Message----- From: Tarig Yassin [mailto:tariq198487@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:24 PM To: nanog Subject: Who controlls the Internet?
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
Internet filtering in Australia is yet to come in, however give it time and Australia will have filters in place to block all content that the government deems inappropriate! Just do a google for filtering in Australia! Kindest Regards, Jared Hirst Sent from my iPhone On 26/07/2010, at 5:06 PM, Marshall Eubanks <tme@americafree.tv> wrote:
On Jul 25, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Robert West wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.west@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:56 PM To: 'Tarig Yassin' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet?
Each individual government seems to control the information the enters or leaves their borders. Do a search for "Internet Censorship Wikileaks". Every government has their own set of morals and standards and politically motivated black list. Certainly the USA wants to swagger and force its will on not only its own people but the entire planet, but they are not alone. Australia, China, North Korea, Germany........ Etc............ All with their own agenda. It would be great if there was ONE entity that controlled content and each country had to abide by their decisions in order to have access to the backbone but that's only just a dream at this point.
Dream ? That's a nightmare. It would rapidly lead to the worst of both worlds. Internet rules would be made like intellectual property rules, in the dead of night by non-elected government bureaucrats at the behest of corporate lobbyists. Study the history of ACTA if you doubt me.
Regards Marshall
The flat earth that should be the flow of information needs to be demanded by everyone.
That's my 13 cents worth.
(Inflation sucks)
But who am I but just a thinking and caring animal of this planet?
Bob-
-----Original Message----- From: Tarig Yassin [mailto:tariq198487@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:24 PM To: nanog Subject: Who controlls the Internet?
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:41:05PM -0400, Robert West wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.west@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:56 PM To: 'Tarig Yassin' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet?
Each individual government seems to control the information the enters or leaves their borders. Do a search for "Internet Censorship Wikileaks". Every government has their own set of morals and standards and politically motivated black list. Certainly the USA wants to swagger and force its will on not only its own people but the entire planet, but they are not alone. Australia, China, North Korea, Germany........ Etc............ All with their own agenda. It would be great if there was ONE entity that controlled content and each country had to abide by their decisions in order to have access to the backbone but that's only just a dream at this point. The flat earth that should be the flow of information needs to be demanded by everyone.
Not all states (or people for that matter) agree with Voltaire's view of free speech. If our democratically accountable, and elected government wants to ban hate speech/child porn/$OTHER_ILLEGAL_CONTENT, and puts in an accountable method of dealing with it, I find it hard to see why the US view of free speech should prevail over that choice.
That's my 13 cents worth.
(Inflation sucks)
But who am I but just a thinking and caring animal of this planet?
Bob-
-----Original Message----- From: Tarig Yassin [mailto:tariq198487@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:24 PM To: nanog Subject: Who controlls the Internet?
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
On Jul 25, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Robert West wrote:
Each individual government seems to control the information the enters or leaves their borders.
No, each individual government can have laws restricting information entering and leaving their borders. Few gov'ts actually control said info. The US gov't most certainly does not (despite the tin-foil-hat brigades protestations to the contrary).
Do a search for "Internet Censorship Wikileaks". Every government has their own set of morals and standards and politically motivated black list. Certainly the USA wants to swagger and force its will on not only its own people but the entire planet, but they are not alone.
Nice political blather. What has it got to do on the point at hand. (Also, I would be very happy if every gov't on the planet were as open with information exchange / lax on information control as the USG is.)
Australia, China, North Korea, Germany........ Etc............ All with their own agenda. It would be great if there was ONE entity that controlled content and each country had to abide by their decisions in order to have access to the backbone but that's only just a dream at this point. The flat earth that should be the flow of information needs to be demanded by everyone.
I believe someone else explained just how stupid an idea that was. So I will just add my voice to the idea that multiple unrelated entities running the 'Net is much better than a single, central control. -- TTFN, patrick
-----Original Message----- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.west@just-micro.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:02 PM To: 'Tarig Yassin' Subject: RE: Who controlls the Internet? To add....... This is a great reason to provide proxy servers or to use Tor. If enough resources are thrown against it to make it irrelevant.............. Well........... Okay, so they will fight back with even more. Time to shoot one's self in the head. :) In the immortal words of Bob Marley, "Get Up, Stand Up! Don't Give Up The Fight!" Bob- -----Original Message----- From: Tarig Yassin [mailto:tariq198487@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:24 PM To: nanog Subject: Who controlls the Internet? Deal all I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day. For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message. And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy. I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet? ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
clearly, the united states government does randy
On Jul 25, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Tarig Yassin wrote:
Deal all
I want to show you some obstacles that some countries face them every day.
For example when users from Sudan trying to access some web site they will get a *Forbidden Access Error* message.
And some messages say: you are forbidden to access this web site because your IP address appears form country black listed due to USA government policy.
Well, I don't know of any such US government policy. And we (AmericaFree.TV) have a steady audience in Sudan (including at this very moment), for content streamed from the USA. It would be useful to list what sites for what content. Regards Marshall
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
ThanksTarig _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tarig Yassin" <tariq198487@hotmail.com>
I would like to issue a question here, who controls this Internet?
The elders of the Internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg
participants (22)
-
Allen Bass -
andrew.wallace -
bmanning＠vacation.karoshi.com -
Cian Brennan -
David Conrad -
Franck Martin -
Fred Baker -
Gadi Evron -
Jared Hirst -
Joe Hamelin -
Joly MacFie -
Jorge Amodio -
Justin M. Streiner -
Marshall Eubanks -
Nathan Eisenberg -
Patrick W. Gilmore -
Randy Bush -
Robert West -
Seth Mattinen -
Stephane Bortzmeyer -
Tarig Yassin -
techie jovenes