RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
I once was in a class sitting beside a CCIE that asked me what the command syntax was. I have no faith in the certified. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Levine [mailto:matt-keyword-nanog.aedae7@deliver3.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 2:50 PM To: Daniel Roesen Cc: Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ] On Nov 10, 2003, at 2:38 PM, Daniel Roesen wrote:
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 12:51:55PM -0500, Fisher, Shawn wrote:
I agree certifications are overated at best.
Give me someone with the right attitude and I'll teach him anything.
Showing the ability to get things done is the greatest skill imo.
I once read the following and saved it away...
"Hire and promote first on the basis of integrity; second, motivation; third, capacity; fourth, understanding; fifth, knowledge; and last and least, experience. Without integrity, motivation is dangerous; without motivation, capacity is impotent; without capacity, understanding is limited; without understanding, knowledge is meaningless; without knowledge, experience is blind. Experience is easy to provide and quickly put to good use by people with all the other qualities."
Have no clue who's the origin.
So what you're saying is you want cisco to certify people's integrity? :)
Best regards, Daniel
-- Matt Levine <matt@deliver3.com> "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -BIX
Nothing like throwing the baby out with the bath water... One bad apple spoils the bunch.. I could go on... ==================== Wayne Gustavus
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Wesley Vaux Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 3:24 PM To: Matt Levine Cc: Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
I once was in a class sitting beside a CCIE that asked me what the command syntax was. I have no faith in the certified.
As someone who once had a CCIE (5465), and who has encountered many certified individuals from various certifying organizations, in my experience, certification proves that the person has the certificate and little else. It does not prove they are incompetent. It certainly does not prove they are competent. I will say I have encountered more MCSEs that were incompetent than almost any other certification. I will also say that I have yet to meet an MCSE+I that knows anything about networking (unless I met the person and didn't know they were an MCSE+I). Owen --On Monday, November 10, 2003 16:58 -0500 "Wayne Gustavus (nanog)" <nanog@wgustavus.com> wrote:
Nothing like throwing the baby out with the bath water...
One bad apple spoils the bunch..
I could go on...
==================== Wayne Gustavus
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Wesley Vaux Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 3:24 PM To: Matt Levine Cc: Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
I once was in a class sitting beside a CCIE that asked me what the command syntax was. I have no faith in the certified.
-- If this message was not signed with gpg key 0FE2AA3D, it's probably a forgery.
I agree that the CCIE is no panacea, but of the few dozen I've met there were only two I wouldn't trust with an enable password. Vendor certs will always be of limited value as most aim at the needs of enterprises rather than service providers, and even the couple that don't have an understandably unhealthy vendor centric view. What value they do have, IMHO is that they can show the effort the person is prepared to make to learn new things, particularly is their cert wasn't employer sponsored. Nothing beats personal recommendation, even if it's from my friends brothers acquaintance - just weeding out the nutjobs and BS artists leaves a pretty small pool. Simon -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Owen DeLong Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 3:08 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ] As someone who once had a CCIE (5465), and who has encountered many certified individuals from various certifying organizations, in my experience, certification proves that the person has the certificate and little else. It does not prove they are incompetent. It certainly does not prove they are competent. I will say I have encountered more MCSEs that were incompetent than almost any other certification. I will also say that I have yet to meet an MCSE+I that knows anything about networking (unless I met the person and didn't know they were an MCSE+I). Owen --On Monday, November 10, 2003 16:58 -0500 "Wayne Gustavus (nanog)" <nanog@wgustavus.com> wrote:
Nothing like throwing the baby out with the bath water...
One bad apple spoils the bunch..
I could go on...
==================== Wayne Gustavus
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Wesley Vaux Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 3:24 PM To: Matt Levine Cc: Nanog List (E-mail) Subject: RE: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]
I once was in a class sitting beside a CCIE that asked me what the command syntax was. I have no faith in the certified.
-- If this message was not signed with gpg key 0FE2AA3D, it's probably a forgery.
participants (4)
-
Owen DeLong -
Simon Hamilton-Wilkes -
Wayne Gustavus (nanog) -
Wesley Vaux