Hi NANOG! Sorry for the spam, but this seemed like the best place to post this message.... :) Some of us have been talking about this for years.... And it has been a long time in the making, but it is finally here... A mailing list for Women in Networking... Whoohoo... :) I hope this list develops into a useful forum and resource for all of us... A place to discuss, network, complain, vent, coordinate... Whatever... :) Thanks to many gracious folks, this list is now possible (Thanks, Steve. Thanks, Paul. And to my co-conspirators... Hi Cathy! Hi Eve!) Send "subscribe net-grrls" to Majordomo@wibh.net Please send me any comments, complaints, etc.... //abha ;)
On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, abha wrote:
Some of us have been talking about this for years.... And it has been a long time in the making, but it is finally here... A mailing list for Women in Networking... Whoohoo... :)
I hope this list develops into a useful forum and resource for all of us... A place to discuss, network, complain, vent, coordinate... Whatever... :)
some "geek girls" that i know have also finally gotten their "women in networking" organization off the ground in the past month. it is called the geek girls coaltition, and it was created for the same reasons mentioned above. the webpage is http://www.geekgirlscoalition.com ...now back to our regularily scheduled non-political discusions. deeann m.m. mikula network administrator telerama internet abuse@telerama.com/spam@telerama.com
I don't want to start a flamewar here, and I don't really care that much myself, but I'd just like to point out that if anyone started a "men in networking" list, they'd be immediately flamed and lambasted by people of both sexes. -- J.D. Falk "Laughter is the sound Product Manager that knowledge makes when it's born." Mail Abuse Prevention System LLC -- The Cluetrain Manifesto
A time came when I wondered if my unease at being referred to by my coworkers as "knowing some things .. but not much" was justified. I searched out some lists for 'women in tech' - no answers there, but a hella lot of crummy recipes ... And the attitude follows me still to a new job, and by the time they discover that I'm actually a valuable resource I'm so disgusted by the comparatively rotten regard that it becomes yet another unhappiness. There are numerous other war stories, but suffice to say that if there's a chance that a somewhat serious forum is forming along those lines ... I doubt I'd consider it if I'd not seen it here. At 01:01 PM 6/9/00 -0700, you wrote:
I don't want to start a flamewar here, and I don't really care that much myself, but I'd just like to point out that if anyone started a "men in networking" list, they'd be immediately flamed and lambasted by people of both sexes.
Agreed 100%. I can't speak for the list owners, but I'd think that was absurd if there was a concentrated effort to deny subscribers of any kind. However, gripes about women's issues on this list would not be tolerated, nor should they. Perhaps the listowner/s had this in mind? - danielle
-- J.D. Falk "Laughter is the sound Product Manager that knowledge makes when it's born." Mail Abuse Prevention System LLC -- The Cluetrain Manifesto
Danielle Vogedes ----------------- <^Z due to flux ... stay tuned>
C'mon JD - how many *MEN* are actually on the list - all I've ever seen is a few late 30's teens and 20-something hippies... but where are the *real* men - men who would eat packets and crap data - men who could have any self respecting grrl eating out of the palm-pilot of his hand - JD - I ask you where are the RealMen - stream a few in here will ya dog?!? -- I am nothing if not net-Q! - ras@poppa.thick.net On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, J.D. Falk wrote:
I don't want to start a flamewar here, and I don't really care that much myself, but I'd just like to point out that if anyone started a "men in networking" list, they'd be immediately flamed and lambasted by people of both sexes.
C'mon JD - how many *MEN* are actually on the list - all I've ever seen is a few late 30's teens and 20-something hippies... but where are the *real* men - men who would eat packets and crap data - men who could have any self respecting grrl eating out of the palm-pilot of his hand - JD - I ask you where are the RealMen - stream a few in here will ya dog?!?
they're busy working. /rf
Thus spake J.D. Falk (jdfalk@mail-abuse.org):
I don't want to start a flamewar here, and I don't really care that much myself, but I'd just like to point out that if anyone started a "men in networking" list, they'd be immediately flamed and lambasted by people of both sexes.
But what would be the point of such a list? To discuss the effects of single mode fiber on prostate health? I don't see how there would be any interest. During the early 90s, when sexual harassment suits were in vogue, and when self-annointed "diversity facilitators" were milking corporations and universities left and right, I used to resent the presumptuous idea of people booking lecture halls [I was a student at the time] and forming groups to essentially air dirty laundry under the auspices of conducting legitimate academic discussions. But it would be even more presumptuous to entertain the idea of stopping them. This effort seems different. It's a voluntary thing, and having worked around several of the kinds of people that make a woman's work environment less than inviting, I can understand where efforts like this are coming from. NANOG is not an inappropriate forum to announce it. NANOG is also *not* an inappropriate forum to announce a "Men in Networking" discussion list; the only difference is that whereas the women's list would draw interest from a few women, the men's list would likely draw no interest whatsoever. Not unlike something as silly as "White People in Networking." --John
On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:13:38 EDT, John Butler <john.butler@netrail.net> said:
whatsoever. Not unlike something as silly as "White People in Networking."
Some guy recently had a best-seller about angry white men. Go figure. -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech
What's verio's policy on faul websites (www.goatse.cx) I've seen it plastered all over *ix message boards and crap. -bil On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Randy Bush wrote:
Some guy recently had a best-seller about angry white men.
when unjust power is threatened, anger is an obvious reaction.
randy
The American right-wing has for a few years now been trying to perfect a "turn the tables" rhetorical method superficially utilizing the language of legitimate civil rights and similar movements but employing the "trick" of using a value-free logic (that is, the comment always ignores "little things" like 400 years of slavery or pay inequality or whatever is convenient to ignore to make the smarmy comment.) It basically can be characterized by: How come we give all the first-aid to the injured, isn't that unfair and a violation of the rights of the uninjured?! But what if we bandaged everyone! Isn't that a terrible inconvenience to the majority of people! Therefore: Let's outlaw first-aid! It's mostly silly tho I guess it plays well to their own amen corner, I mean hey, what won't? What's pathetic is when they themselves don't realize it's at best a form of parody and act like they should be taken seriously.
Is NANOG really the place for everyone to air their political views? Facts: A mailing list was created. Then it was announced. All this commentary about it is unnecessary.
I agree.. lets get back to the important business of nanog, such as - bashing UUnet. On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Mark Borchers wrote:
Is NANOG really the place for everyone to air their political views?
Facts: A mailing list was created. Then it was announced.
All this commentary about it is unnecessary.
participants (14)
-
abha -
Barry Shein -
Bill Sehmel -
Danielle Vogedes -
deeann mikula -
J.D. Falk -
John Butler -
Mark Borchers -
Paul Ferguson -
Randy Bush -
Rich Fulton -
Rich Sena -
Rodney L Caston -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu