NRC? Do you mean ETC (early termination charge)? This is a sore point with me in all telco contracts. They want a one- or two-year term, or even three, and in exchange give you a discount on the installation and a tiny MRC reduction. But if you cancel early, they demand full payment for all the remaining months! I realize that the contract is written this way, but why? It doesn’t seem fair at all, and as a service provider myself, I know this is actually a huge unearned windfall for the provider. To make things worse, many providers subtly plant an “auto-renew” clause in their contracts. You miss canceling but the end of the contract date, and BOOM, you’re on the hook for another two years! I’ve been burned by this more than once. -mel

On Mar 7, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Romeo Czumbil <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> wrote:

Wait till you ask for a disconnect. Then you get hit again for a hefty NRC

-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of James Laszko Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:11 AM To: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

One of our colo’s in San Diego was purchased by Zayo recently and I requested a new copper Ethernet xcon to be placed. After a few days I received a quote from my new rep quoting a MRC 3x what I’m currently paying for existing xcon’s as well as a hefty NRC as well. Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Anyone care to share what an average copper xcon, single floor, meet-me-room to cage, Ethernet from carrier circuit costs? (This xcon is approx 30 feet..)

Thanks!

James

Sent from my iPad

There are a couple reasons. You order service from me.  It costs me $X to build out that service.  I balance that against the value of your contract.  If you cancel early then my numbers may not work or I may lose money on the deal, or.... if I had to borrow money to do your build, then my bank is going to be angry when the value I told them I was getting for the build doesn't come through. Smaller providers may end up factoring your contract.  If that contract doesn't pay what they said it would they're liable for the balance of the factoring deal. On 3/7/2018 10:55 AM, Mel Beckman wrote:

NRC? Do you mean ETC (early termination charge)?

This is a sore point with me in all telco contracts. They want a one- or two-year term, or even three, and in exchange give you a discount on the installation and a tiny MRC reduction. But if you cancel early, they demand full payment for all the remaining months! I realize that the contract is written this way, but why? It doesn’t seem fair at all, and as a service provider myself, I know this is actually a huge unearned windfall for the provider.

To make things worse, many providers subtly plant an “auto-renew” clause in their contracts. You miss canceling but the end of the contract date, and BOOM, you’re on the hook for another two years!

I’ve been burned by this more than once.

-mel

...

On Mar 7, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Romeo Czumbil <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> wrote:

Wait till you ask for a disconnect. Then you get hit again for a hefty NRC

-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of James Laszko Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:11 AM To: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

One of our colo’s in San Diego was purchased by Zayo recently and I requested a new copper Ethernet xcon to be placed. After a few days I received a quote from my new rep quoting a MRC 3x what I’m currently paying for existing xcon’s as well as a hefty NRC as well. Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Anyone care to share what an average copper xcon, single floor, meet-me-room to cage, Ethernet from carrier circuit costs? (This xcon is approx 30 feet..)

Thanks!

James

Sent from my iPad

-- ================================================================ Aaron Wendel Chief Technical Officer Wholesale Internet, Inc. (AS 32097) (816)550-9030 http://www.wholesaleinternet.com ================================================================

NRC = non-recurring fee - the setup fee. They are charging setup fee and monthly fees to run a piece of ethernet. The xcon fee monthly is 25% of the price of the ethernet service we're getting from the telco.... James -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 9:09 AM Cc: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing I'm sure he means what he says. The cost to remove the cross connect when you're done with it. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Beckman" <mel@beckman.org> To: "Romeo Czumbil" <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> Cc: "nanog" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:55:32 AM Subject: Re: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing NRC? Do you mean ETC (early termination charge)? This is a sore point with me in all telco contracts. They want a one- or two-year term, or even three, and in exchange give you a discount on the installation and a tiny MRC reduction. But if you cancel early, they demand full payment for all the remaining months! I realize that the contract is written this way, but why? It doesn’t seem fair at all, and as a service provider myself, I know this is actually a huge unearned windfall for the provider. To make things worse, many providers subtly plant an “auto-renew” clause in their contracts. You miss canceling but the end of the contract date, and BOOM, you’re on the hook for another two years! I’ve been burned by this more than once. -mel

On Mar 7, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Romeo Czumbil <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> wrote:

Wait till you ask for a disconnect. Then you get hit again for a hefty NRC

-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of James Laszko Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:11 AM To: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

One of our colo’s in San Diego was purchased by Zayo recently and I requested a new copper Ethernet xcon to be placed. After a few days I received a quote from my new rep quoting a MRC 3x what I’m currently paying for existing xcon’s as well as a hefty NRC as well. Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Anyone care to share what an average copper xcon, single floor, meet-me-room to cage, Ethernet from carrier circuit costs? (This xcon is approx 30 feet..)

Thanks!

James

Sent from my iPad

Those days are alive and well. And of course, it hasn't improved any. On 03/07/2018 12:25 PM, chris wrote:

reminds me of the days when you were forced to colo gear in the phone company's CO to get access to their cable plant and got gouged on power and the interconnection between the CO and then you had to buy your upstream connectivity from the ILEC a insane markup or for ptp to your closest pop :) not only did you pay a fortune for the privilege but then you had to wait 60-90 for the ILEC to "build" the circuit

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:18 PM, James Laszko <jamesl@mythostech.com> wrote:

...

NRC = non-recurring fee - the setup fee. They are charging setup fee and monthly fees to run a piece of ethernet. The xcon fee monthly is 25% of the price of the ethernet service we're getting from the telco....

James

-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 9:09 AM Cc: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

I'm sure he means what he says. The cost to remove the cross connect when you're done with it.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel@beckman.org> To: "Romeo Czumbil" <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> Cc: "nanog" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:55:32 AM Subject: Re: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

NRC? Do you mean ETC (early termination charge)?

This is a sore point with me in all telco contracts. They want a one- or two-year term, or even three, and in exchange give you a discount on the installation and a tiny MRC reduction. But if you cancel early, they demand full payment for all the remaining months! I realize that the contract is written this way, but why? It doesn’t seem fair at all, and as a service provider myself, I know this is actually a huge unearned windfall for the provider.

To make things worse, many providers subtly plant an “auto-renew” clause in their contracts. You miss canceling but the end of the contract date, and BOOM, you’re on the hook for another two years!

I’ve been burned by this more than once.

-mel

...

On Mar 7, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Romeo Czumbil <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> wrote: Wait till you ask for a disconnect. Then you get hit again for a hefty NRC

-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of James Laszko Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:11 AM To: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

One of our colo’s in San Diego was purchased by Zayo recently and I requested a new copper Ethernet xcon to be placed. After a few days I received a quote from my new rep quoting a MRC 3x what I’m currently paying for existing xcon’s as well as a hefty NRC as well. Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Anyone care to share what an average copper xcon, single floor, meet-me-room to cage, Ethernet from carrier circuit costs? (This xcon is approx 30 feet..) Thanks!

James

Sent from my iPad

Ohh no NRC. Reason = Somebody has to pull back the cables (aka cut the ends off) -----Original Message----- From: Mel Beckman [mailto:mel@beckman.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 11:56 AM To: Romeo Czumbil <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> Cc: James Laszko <jamesl@mythostech.com>; nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing NRC? Do you mean ETC (early termination charge)? This is a sore point with me in all telco contracts. They want a one- or two-year term, or even three, and in exchange give you a discount on the installation and a tiny MRC reduction. But if you cancel early, they demand full payment for all the remaining months! I realize that the contract is written this way, but why? It doesn’t seem fair at all, and as a service provider myself, I know this is actually a huge unearned windfall for the provider. To make things worse, many providers subtly plant an “auto-renew” clause in their contracts. You miss canceling but the end of the contract date, and BOOM, you’re on the hook for another two years! I’ve been burned by this more than once. -mel

On Mar 7, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Romeo Czumbil <Romeo.Czumbil@tierpoint.com> wrote:

Wait till you ask for a disconnect. Then you get hit again for a hefty NRC

-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of James Laszko Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 10:11 AM To: nanog <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

One of our colo’s in San Diego was purchased by Zayo recently and I requested a new copper Ethernet xcon to be placed. After a few days I received a quote from my new rep quoting a MRC 3x what I’m currently paying for existing xcon’s as well as a hefty NRC as well. Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Anyone care to share what an average copper xcon, single floor, meet-me-room to cage, Ethernet from carrier circuit costs? (This xcon is approx 30 feet..)

Thanks!

James

Sent from my iPad

Sure, but that's just a cost of doing business. There's not a line-item for cleaning the bathroom. Frankly, I don't know why there are trays full of hundreds of pairs instead of each cage having a patch panel and a 144 or some such trunk to another patch panel elsewhere. Seems like there's a lot of extra work being done. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth Mattinen" <sethm@rollernet.us> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:17:01 PM Subject: Re: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing On 3/7/18 10:02 AM, Romeo Czumbil wrote:

Ohh no NRC. Reason = Somebody has to pull back the cables (aka cut the ends off)

You mean you're not supposed to let cables pile up indefinitely until they become an immovable tangled mass?

Perhaps so, but if it's not charged at the end it would just be built into the MRC. Longer-term customers would end up paying substantially more. In some cases, it is more cost effective to install an entrance facility as you describe, but it's much more expensive than running individual x-conns as needed. Plus not everyone wants to go to the same place. The cost of an EF would be passed-through, making it far more expensive for the guy or gal who just needs a hand-full of x-conns. -Matt On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:

Sure, but that's just a cost of doing business. There's not a line-item for cleaning the bathroom.

Frankly, I don't know why there are trays full of hundreds of pairs instead of each cage having a patch panel and a 144 or some such trunk to another patch panel elsewhere. Seems like there's a lot of extra work being done.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

----- Original Message -----

From: "Seth Mattinen" <sethm@rollernet.us> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:17:01 PM Subject: Re: Zayo zColo Xcon Pricing

On 3/7/18 10:02 AM, Romeo Czumbil wrote:

...

Ohh no NRC. Reason = Somebody has to pull back the cables (aka cut the ends off)

You mean you're not supposed to let cables pile up indefinitely until they become an immovable tangled mass?

On 3/7/18 11:35 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote:

Because it's a capital outlay up front, instead of a build-as-you-need-it with the capital investment spread over time.

There's no cost if the customer is charged for it when they need it.