andy, disregarding sexual spam, and focusing only on spam, in the US, YOU ARE paying for the time wasted for the spam processed, by paying taxes. Now im not saying spam is good, dont even think for a second i am, i cannot stand oopening my mailbox to find 150 spam in it (a newsgroup mailbox). i couldnt agree more with the fact that it does waste bandwith, server space and cpu, and pisses the general population off, but when i receive spam saying wana make 20k in a week, i wouldnt dream of suing that person, nor would i sue if they sent me any other junk mail stuff (sexual left aside). The meaning of my post was to point out the fact, that MAYBE, if such standard practices werent allowed in the first place, the problem wouldnt arrise. Every1 in this industry knows about the so called Internet gold rush all sales/marketing people picture of, and the change in web technology over the past 5 years has considerably shown that. they make more apealing stuff ( more bandwith and size consuming), and send of bulk mail, we build better backbones to transport it, but in the same way that u are paying for junk mail or spam, ur also paying for gamers,and pirates sharing gigz of warez and yet if u removed just both of these comunities from the net, you'd have solved more by stopign piracy which is consting the industry truck loads of money, compared to the time, money (and obviously publicity etc etc etc) spent during a trial against a spammer. all this is jsut to point out that NO MATTER what you do, to restrict abuses on the internet, only servers located inside the USA geographical area are subject to american laws, even though most of the junk i receive comes from US servers, and not european or asian servers. in the end, unless u have the feds track spamers as the most dangerous people to effectively sedn them to already overpopulated jails and cost more money to tax payers, you havent fixed anything. just like hackers find hiles in security systems, so will spamers. spam in a can, good, spam in a packet, BAD Morgan -----Original Message----- From: Andy Walden [mailto:andy@tigerteam.net] Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 16:10 To: Morgan Dollard Cc: 'Derek J. Balling'; Barry Shein; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: spammers will move offshore?

Im confuesed about the origin of this discussion, since i mised the kick off, but i see way too much concern over spam, we've all been receiving junk mail in our Mailboxes (paper plastic stuff) for years, and has any1 ever been sued or banned from the US postal service for it? Im gona add real quick that im not american, and quicky disagree with the fact that americans arent liked, its jsut that the fact that you try to control the rest of the world, INCLUDING, the internet, makes people think twice. the internet belongs to no one, and child pornography might be legal in some weird country in the world, but thats not the issue here. SPAM, typically unsolicited mail, is no differnet from having jehova witnesses knock at your door, or one of them salesman try to sell u insurance a house a boat, the moon, hell his underwear even. Do u actually SUE that guy for it? i agree that spam is anoying, even mailign lsitst like this one get picked up email addresses, and that there should be something done to fix it, but how can u prosecute people on the internet when u allow the same practice to go unbothered in real life.

I'm sure I'm won't be the only to reply this with answer. I pay for my mail server. I pay for my bandwidth that connects my mailserver to the rest of the world. I have it down to an exact finite price how much I pay per megabyte for the privilege for my traffic to be on the internet. I have a little less finite price for the cost of disk space on my server to handle the thousands of spams that my customers recieve (that none of them want) and for the CPU time to process that spam. If someone takes the time and money to mail me something via the post office, fine. The expense is their's, not mine. If someone takes their time to come to my door, fine, their expense is their time and not mine since I don't have to answer. I don't have a choice with spam. In fact, to draw the anology out more, if someone came to my house saying offensive highly sexual things I could quite possibly have that person arrested for harassment or obscene acts. This is not the case with spam, where a large amount of the spam is porn related. This is the fundemental difference between spam and other traditional forms of advertising. Where the cost is placed.. Regards, andy Disclaimer ---------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. This communication represents the originator's personal views and opinions, which do not necessarily reflect those of the NSC Group. If you are not the original recipient or the person responsible for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error, and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you received this email in error, please immediately notify administrator@nscglobal.com.