Re: Operational Issues with 69.0.0.0/8...
So here's a question for people. For those who filter, what about the real-time feed that people want from the RIRs is different from this:
lynx -dump http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space | grep "IANA - Reserved"
1. Missing data. Your solution does not show the parts of 69/8 that ARIN has reserved or unallocated. 2. Referrals. Your solution provides no referral to another source for more detailed data. In another world, if I ask a .org server for www.ipv6.org it will "refer" me to the ipv6.org server who will "refer" me to www.ip6.org. With LDAP we have a directory service that can issue such referrals and have them automatically followed to provide as complete a view as we desire. 3. Not a crude hack. A UNIX shell script scraping data from a text file that was created as a human-readable document is not my idea of a directory service. We needed crude hacks like whois and RADB in the beginning when there were no other tools available and we had networks to build. But now we have lots of tools and technology available. Our companies are probably all spending money today on LDAP directories for internal use. It is becoming a standard IT technology and we should be leveraging it rather than continuing with crude hacks for old times sake. --Michael Dillon
--On Monday, December 9, 2002 15:55 +0000 Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
1. Missing data. Your solution does not show the parts of 69/8 that ARIN has reserved or unallocated.
Are you telling me that people are really going to update their filters every single time ARIN (or any other RIR) makes an allocation?
2. Referrals. Your solution provides no referral to another source for more detailed data. In another world, if I ask a .org server for www.ipv6.org it will "refer" me to the ipv6.org server who will "refer" me to www.ip6.org. With LDAP we have a directory service that can issue such referrals and have them automatically followed to provide as complete a view as we desire.
The file has that data (which registry has which blocks). A simple search/replace can refer you to the next data source.
3. Not a crude hack. A UNIX shell script scraping data from a text file that was created as a human-readable document is not my idea of a directory service. We needed crude hacks like whois and RADB in the beginning when there were no other tools available and we had networks to build. But now we have lots of tools and technology available. Our companies are probably all spending money today on LDAP directories for internal use. It is becoming a standard IT technology and we should be leveraging it rather than continuing with crude hacks for old times sake.
So put it in a perl script and make it look pretty. I'm just showing people that the data _IS_ out there, at least on the /8 level. If you want to wrap something fancy around it, write your own HTTP libraries to grab it yourself then go for it. But the data is there, at least on the /8 level. I would be very interested to hear how many people are generating filters for each and every allocation the RIRs make. Alec -- Alec H. Peterson -- ahp@hilander.com Chief Technology Officer Catbird Networks, http://www.catbird.com
OK, clearly this discussion has mutated into a couple of discussions. I was under the impression we were still talking about a published list of /8 delegations, since all of the prefix filters I've seen operate on that level. However, part of the discussion has mutated into how the RIRs should provide insight into unallocated space inside of delegations they have received from IANA. There are several issues. There is the operational issue relating to people who have received allocations inside of 69/8 and cannot get to backbones who are filtering announcements from that block. I'd say it's safe to assume that the backbones who are filtering 69/8 aren't reading NANOG, so the fact that the operational discussion is happening here probably isn't doing much good to help Todd's problem. As far as how to fix that, somebody probably needs to find the right person at these ISPs and use a clue-by-four appropriately. Then there is the registry issue of how to provide relevant information about which /8s belong to which RIRs. I respectfully suggest that people periodically query http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space for this information. Finally, there is the issue of providing information relating to unallocated blocks within each RIRs allocations. This discussion is far more relevant to the registry specific mailing lists. I suggest those interested in discussing that join the appropriate ARIN mailing list. The discussion is happening on ppml@arin.net, though it is probably more appropriate to the dbwg@arin.net mailing list. Alec -- Alec H. Peterson -- ahp@hilander.com Chief Technology Officer Catbird Networks, http://www.catbird.com
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Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com