On Tue, 20 May 1997, Paul A Vixie wrote:

...

Even though some people do not think they exist...

...Here are the various Root Name Server Confederations that ISPs can choose between. ISPs should only choose one Confederation. Mixing and matching servers from each Confederation is not recommended.

choosing any root name servers other than the 25-year-old IANA set is guaranteed to cost an ISP money in unnecessary tech support and bad public relations.

I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations internationally, are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?

there are not multiple sets of root name servers. there is a set of root name servers and a bunch of paranoid wierdos like jim fleming who run servers who answer bogusly for "." and other domains.

Again, the eDNS root servers are operational and resolve, albeit on a small percentage, are you willing to say this sytem does not work?

...

Also, ISPs should become more familiar with where the following servers are located relative to your servers. There are many network tools which can help you make this assessment.

there is no such choice. there is one set of root name servers and if you don't use it the universe will garbage collect you and your customers and your capital assets since you were clearly not destined to survive.

At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

...

AlterNIC - http://www.alternic.net

....204.94.42.2......ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET. ....204.94.43.1......NS1.BELFAIR.NET. ....204.94.42.1......MX.ALTERNIC.NET. ....207.51.48.15.....NYC.ALTERNIC.NET. ....204.182.105.150..EEK.HTTPD.COM.

money-grabbing fools.

...

eDNS - http://www.edns.net

....205.164.53.250...a-root.edns.net. ....207.32.128.64....b-root.edns.net. ....207.134.7.5......c-root.edns.net. ....208.1.127.5......d-root.edns.net. ....207.114.179.21...e-root.edns.net.

Call us Robbin Hoods, we don't collect a salary for throwing accusations....

power-grabbing thieves.

...

InterNIC - http://www.internic.net

....198.41.0.4.......NS.INTERNIC.NET ....128.63.2.53......AOS.ARL.ARMY.MIL ....192.203.230.10...NS.NASA.GOV ....192.112.36.4.....NS.NIC.DDN.MIL ....128.9.0.107......NS1.ISI.EDU ....128.8.10.90......TERP.UMD.EDU ....192.33.4.12......C.PSI.NET ....192.5.5.241......NS.ISC.ORG ....192.36.148.17....NIC.NORDU.NET

actual root name servers, but by their old names.

Still like challenging your paycheque?

...

name.space - http://www.pgpmedia.com

....209.48.2.11.....root.autono.net ....205.160.45.177..root1.autono.net ....209.48.2.20.....root2.autono.net ....194.109.3.125...root3.autono.net ....194.136.192.40..root4.autono.net ....193.2.132.70....root5.autono.net ....193.97.251.80...root6.autono.net ....209.48.2.40.....root7.autono.net ....204.141.84.82...root8.autono.net ....194.109.21.20...root9.autono.net ....206.86.247.30...root10.autono.net ....209.48.2.5......root11.autono.net

money-grabbing thieves.

I should agree but they too are after what everyone wants....

...

NSI/ISI/RIPE - http://www.netsol.com

....198.41.0.10....J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. ....193.0.14.129...K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. ....198.32.64.12...L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. ....198.32.65.12...M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.

more actual root name servers.

Only because God, ahem.. you approve Paul. I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering? Marc Hurst SKYnic @ SKYSCAPE Communications Inc Toronto Canada

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Ben Black wrote:

...

...

there are not multiple sets of root name servers. there is a set of root name servers and a bunch of paranoid wierdos like jim fleming who run servers who answer bogusly for "." and other domains.

Again, the eDNS root servers are operational and resolve, albeit on a small percentage, are you willing to say this sytem does not work?

their being operational makes them no less bogus. IANA says who answers for "." and eDNS aint it.

Not only is that restraint of trade, I would like to see you make that defense stay in a court outside of the US.

...

...

...

Also, ISPs should become more familiar with where the following servers are located relative to your servers. There are many network tools which can help you make this assessment.

there is no such choice. there is one set of root name servers and if you don't use it the universe will garbage collect you and your customers and your capital assets since you were clearly not destined to survive.

At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

not to be confused with the blatant malicious business interference caused by attempting to forcibly splinter the "." domain.

what happens when there is disagreement in the eDNS community and someone decides to break off and for Yet Another DNS Coalition? or are you assuming such a thing will never happen?

...

Call us Robbin Hoods, we don't collect a salary for throwing accusations....

neither do i. eDNS is bound to produce nothing but confusion and headaches.

...

...

actual root name servers, but by their old names.

Still like challenging your paycheque?

InterNIC may be questionable technically and ethically, but they are blessed by IANA currently. that is important because it eliminates the confusion and headaches of getting dozens of different organizations around the world to agree all the time.

if there are multiple IANA blessed NICs, then so be it. they will operate only as long as they follow the guidelines set down for them by a higher authority with no financial stake in the game.

...

I should agree but they too are after what everyone wants....

everyone wants confusion and headaches?

...

Only because God, ahem.. you approve Paul.

you mean since everyone involved in nameserver issues does exactly what paul says or is that simple hyperbole to hide the lack of facts in your argument?

...

I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

yes, i'm sure there will be no legal action when there are 5 different .web domains that refuse to cooperate with each other.

b3n

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

their being operational makes them no less bogus. IANA says who answers for "." and eDNS aint it.

Not only is that restraint of trade, I would like to see you make that defense stay in a court outside of the US.

Yeah, and then we can go after that horrible 800/888 number monopoly http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/fs_800.htmlhttp://www.f... http://www.sms800.com And those darn frequency allocations the fcc (aka 'THE MAN') is using to keep us (aka 'THE OPPRESSED') down. I think anyone should be able to make up their own 800 numbers and broadcast on any frequency they wish. I think i'll open a new high powered broadcast station in the public safety band. Hey, its my right! DOWN WITH ORDER, UP WITH PEOPLE! \w0zz

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote: ==>Not only is that restraint of trade, I would like to see you make that ==>defense stay in a court outside of the US. I see Mr. Denninger has taught you how to spew bullshit very well, grasshopper. Now, if you could only learn how to quote posts, I think you would make better flamebait... /cah

At 10:47 PM -0400 5/20/97, Marc Hurst wrote:

Not only is that restraint of trade, I would like to see you make that defense stay in a court outside of the US.

I love the way you guys throw legal terms around. The rogue root server activity is the same as a private citizen trying to take over a state money system. It's the same "restraint of trade". d/ -------------------- Dave Crocker +1 408 246 8253 Brandenburg Consulting fax: +1 408 249 6205 675 Spruce Dr. dcrocker@brandenburg.com Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA http://www.brandenburg.com Internet Mail Consortium http://www.imc.org, info@imc.org

On Wed, 21 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

Yes but here you can apply international law.

On Wed, 21 May 1997, Dave Crocker wrote:

...

At 10:47 PM -0400 5/20/97, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

Not only is that restraint of trade, I would like to see you make that defense stay in a court outside of the US.

I love the way you guys throw legal terms around.

The rogue root server activity is the same as a private citizen trying to take over a state money system. It's the same "restraint of trade".

Marc, Why don't you simply make your case before the ITU. I believe that is what happens when there are disputes over global shared broadcast resources such as frequency spectrum. In the mean time, trying to get users to use a system that is not blessed by (some) government/International standards committee/United Nations/etc.) is just opening the users there-of up to a whole lot of interoperability problems and the operators up to a whole passel of extra work and sleepless nights. I myself have way too much of both. This is funny, way back in 1982 when I didn't realize the the Internet would get big [sic]. I had this idea for a global distributed OS (called NEXSYS) it worked on the concept of objects operating in (a/several) global 128 bit address spaces) I realized that there would have to be a single co-ordinating committee to manage the space and I envisioned it to be in Switzerland :) It's funny and ironic that I get to see this flame fest over these topics now. BTW I do consider myself an Anarchist, but anarchy is not the absence of sensible rules. Or the promotion of stupid one that harm your neighbors, (you wanna go and play with dynamite, fine go OVER THERE (way over there) and do it. I think the Net is the largest and most successful example of Anarchy on this planet, what could be more elegant then : We reject kings, presidents, and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code. IETF Credo Dave Clark (1992) So my question to you Marc, is, where is the "rough consensus and the running code" to support your claims that these alternative systems are ready for prime time. And please dpn't point me at a list of rootN.myfantasy.net aliases. I too can put in a few SOA records in my DNS. If indeed there is real work behind these blatherings then "out with it Man". Post the URLs help other's download the code and let's get on with it. I can see, touch and feel Paul V.'s work literally right before me. If DNS were an airplane that I was to take a ride in, I can see from past experience what I'm getting with Paul, What have you got to offer me other than a ticket on a magic carpet (albeit a politically correct one)? Perhapse we should let these other root servers operate and let natural selection do it's work. As far as I'm concerned with the machines I control, I will point at whatever the ITU endorses. If someone wants to put a machine on my net that points somewhere else, fine with me just don't come to me for support. geoffw Virtual Sites

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Ben Black wrote:

what happens when there is disagreement in the eDNS community and someone decides to break off and for Yet Another DNS Coalition? or are you assuming such a thing will never happen?

It has already happened. The Alternic has broken off from the eDNS community and no longer recognizes their TLDs. And name.space never did join the eDNS community and has always had TLDs that conflict with eDNS. Now Karl Denninger has imposed some new rules on eDNS to place limits on people who are trying to create more than 10 new TLDs. The universe in a microcosm... In any event, the US government seems quite happy to let the 114 signatories of the gTLD MoU work things out even though eDNS supporters have vigorously lobbied for US government intervention.

if there are multiple IANA blessed NICs, then so be it. they will operate only as long as they follow the guidelines set down for them by a higher authority with no financial stake in the game. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ An important point that so many people seem to miss.

Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com The bottom line is track record. Not track tearing. Not track derailing. But pounding the damn dirt around the track with the rest of us worms. -- Randy Bush

On Tue, May 20, 1997 at 09:57:10PM -0400, Marc Hurst spewed forth:

are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are? [ . . . ] At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference... [ . . . ] I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

If threats and personal attacks are how eDNS does business, then it's no wonder that less than 0.01% of the hosts on the net are configured to resolve eDNS's TLD's. Far as I'm concerned, until you guys get 10%, you don't exist. ---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@cybernothing.org> =========--------- | "The First Amendment was designed to protect offensive speech, | | because nobody ever tries to ban the other kind." | | -- Mike Godwin, staff counsel, EFF | ----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----

On Tue, 20 May 1997, J.D. Falk wrote:

On Tue, May 20, 1997 at 09:57:10PM -0400, Marc Hurst spewed forth:

...

are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are? [ . . . ] At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference... [ . . . ] I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

If threats and personal attacks are how eDNS does business, then it's no wonder that less than 0.01% of the hosts on the net are configured to resolve eDNS's TLD's.

Far as I'm concerned, until you guys get 10%, you don't exist.

Your observation would be correct if you read it as a threat, however it is a challenge to the US miopic interests that plague the political circles of the net.

---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@cybernothing.org> =========--------- | "The First Amendment was designed to protect offensive speech, | | because nobody ever tries to ban the other kind." | | -- Mike Godwin, staff counsel, EFF | ----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----

Why not come up for a bbq.... I will go grab some moose... On Tue, 20 May 1997, Ben Black wrote:

...

Your observation would be correct if you read it as a threat, however it is a challenge to the US miopic interests that plague the political circles of the net.

those darned americans! they think just because they built the internet and generally do their best to keep things running they have a right to stop angelic foreigners like yourself from making a buck at the expense of network stability and coherence.

i say we lynch them all! who's with me?

b3n

No, On the contrary. I support eDNS because it is a good (not great) free market model. The only domain I expect to recover costs on perhaps is ".sex". The only people who will make money on domains already have. It is kinda like finding a new playground without any real rules. Things should be allowed to evolve. I cannot see any real value in people signing up "yourname"@isp.z. Vanity is not an industry. It is cute but it has more to do with soveriegn rights. Really, I am not in it for the bucks cause it just is not there. I will answer truthfully anyone who does not believe me. This has more to do with internet and the future world goverance. THINK ABOUT IT - - - ? On Tue, 20 May 1997, Ben Black wrote:

do us all a favor, marc, and admit that you only support eDNS because you hope to make a buck.

you hav eno interest in better serving your customers, enhancing the stability of the internet, or any of the other ethical goals to which you have alluded. you are only in it for the money.

and before you go slamming vix's motivations, why don't you check who wrote the name service software you are writing.

b3n

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

This has more to do with internet and the future world goverance.

"Future world goverance(sic)"? Try "present world governance", Marc. Present world governance by Joyce Reynolds and Jon Postel, two middle-aged American hippies sitting on the beach in southern California with their Dell laptops and their Intel CPUs and their Microsoft operating system and their WaveLAN wireless network card, dialed in using the University-of- Michigan-written Point-to-point protocol, pulling your strings and my strings and everyone else's strings because the U.S. Government says so. God bless 'em, too. You know why, Marc? How come two middle-aged hippies in L.A. can completely determine the fate of the global networking infrastructure? Because we've got the bomb. Two words for you: nuclear fucking weapons, that's why. That's why SNMP IODs start with 1.3._6_.1, that's right, the Department of Defense, American merchants of death, spreading good old fashioned American napalm on anyone who disagrees. LOS ANGELES, Marc, HOLLYWOOD. We not only control your foreign policy (Canada's a sovereign nation! Yeah, right; Britain didn't even extend the courtesy of mailing you your so-called Constitution, by which they granted you, still subject to the Queen, more autonomous colonial rule, until, what, eight years ago?), we also control your culture. And it's only going to get worse, because we've got the bomb, we've got the napalm, we've got Mauel Noriega in prison in Ohio because he fucked with the wrong President, we've got 100,000 Iraqi corpses, we've got Hollywood controlling the minds of your kids, slowly Americanizing what's left of your culture from the inside out, we've also got the IANA, two hippies on the beach in southern California controlling the destiny of the net whether you like it or not. "Future world goverance(sic)"? Try "present world governance", Marc. -- Todd Graham Lewis

On Wed, 21 May 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:

- Where's the official Nanog "Reccommended Practices" archive, encapsulating years of hard-won wisdom on the part of NANOs?

You and I have to sit down and talk about this in Tampa.

Where are the mailing lists for these Nanog-sanctioned projects so I can spend my evenings helping out instead of flaming lusers like Hurst on Nanog?

Seeing as how you work for a network provider one might ask why you don't just create such a list and announce it? ;-) Sign me up.

Does anyone give a shit about training the next generation of network operators, or maybe increasing the clue factor of the present one?

Yes many people do care and are nibbling away at the problem. And if there are any other people on the list that would be interested in sitting down with Todd and I to discuss this at Tampa, raise your hands. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com The bottom line is track record. Not track tearing. Not track derailing. But pounding the damn dirt around the track with the rest of us worms. -- Randy Bush

Foreword: If you don't like any of the follow suggestions or existing documents, why don't you use some of your boundless energy to write some code or documentation to improve them. On Wed, 21 May 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:

For everyone bitching about the S/N on Nanog, I have a few questions: - Where's the "Official Nanog IGPs for Dummies" book?

For EGPs, Avi Freedman and Dave Siegel have both written tutorials for BGP that are available on the web. Their efforts are exemplary. By IGP, I am assuming you are talking about designing with OSPF and static routing (and not RIP, IS/IS, or IGRP). Why don't you write a tutorial for OSPF? You can look at "http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/104/1.html" as one existing example.

- How about the virtual-RADB-workshop software for Windows and Linux, so college students and waiters at cybercafe's can start practicing the registering of their route objects?

Good suggestion. Work with the RADB people. Have you bothered to join the rs-discuss list?

- "OpenIOS", the IOS clone for Unix that lets people practice router configuration and monitoring w/o shelling out $1k for a 2501?

If you want an existing freely available BGP router daemon use "http://www.gated.org". However, an IOS clone would be cool. Feel free to write it.

- Where's the official Nanog "Reccommended Practices" archive, encapsulating years of hard-won wisdom on the part of NANOs?

http://compute.merit.edu/help.html "Recommendations for Internet Routing" http://dranet.dra.com/draft-donelan-rnmg-latest.txt "Responsible Network Management Guidelines"

Where are the mailing lists for these Nanog-sanctioned projects so I can spend my evenings helping out instead of flaming lusers like Hurst on Nanog?

NANOG-sanctioned? You haven't given me the secret handshake or the pass phrase so I can't tell you. Ahh, don't you remember on the night of your initiation receiving a handbook? NANOG is informal, and absent much of the useless fees and hierarchy of other organizations. Work done by volunteers which produces results receives the respect and recognition of others. A rule that might help you was one we used at a research and development facility I once worked at: Never mention a problem without also mentioning possible solutions.

Does anyone give a shit about training the next generation of network operators, or maybe increasing the clue factor of the present one?

Most of us do.

Or does my flaming Fleming wannabe's on Nanog reflect the generally cynical attitude among members towards Nanog in general?

Don't waste your time, don't waste our time. Go read the NANOG archives starting 24 months ago. We get to see this discussion over and over and over again. Not convinced and need a real dose? Go read the inet-access archives starting 2 years ago, and just read threads with a post by Jim Flemming in them. Do something constructive. Write code, write documentation, do research, and solve a customer's problem. Mike. +------------------- H U R R I C A N E - E L E C T R I C -------------------+ | Mike Leber Direct Internet Connections Voice 408 282 1540 | | Hurricane Electric Web Hosting & Co-location Fax 408 971 3340 | | mleber@he.net http://www.he.net | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Marc Hurst writes:

I support eDNS because it is a good (not great) free market model.

The IANA is supporting the model in which anyone who wants to may operate a registration service, competing freely with everyone else to register names in any of the generic TLDs -- customers may freely move from registrar to registrar, all the while keeping their names. Mr. Hurst is supporting a model in which people get assigned monopolies over particular TLDs. I will leave it to the reader to decide if Mr. Hurst's usage of the word "free market" is appropriate for his model, and if the model supported by the IANA is "anti-competitive", as Mr. Hurst's buddies are fond of claiming. Perry Speaking personally, and not in any official capacity

Oh go ahead, fire away, we like a good joke up here... On Tue, 20 May 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

Your observation would be correct if you read it as a threat, however it is a challenge to the US miopic interests that plague the political circles of the net.

"Myopic"? Think more along the lines of "hegemonic". It's easy to ignore the rest of the world when the rest of the world doesn't matter.

I would add a generic insult to Canada here, but Sean Doran's presence in this forum saved your worthless ass on that count.

-- Todd Graham Lewis MindSpring Enterprises tlewis@mindspring.com

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations internationally,

are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?

I am! Sue me, sue me! I'm a cabal (TINC) member as well, and I'll deny it to my dying day!

Cool, someone who IS a gamer....

...

At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

Yeah, and I'm a party to it. I've told all my friends what a moron you are and that they'd be fools to do business with your mother. Not only was it malicious, it was intentional!

FUCK YOU!!! I hate it when people get rumours right... :) hahaha

...

Still like challenging your paycheque?

Yeah, I do. Why don't you come down to Dallas and challenge my paycheck like a man. Still like being an asshole?

Hey, the fact that you are so challenging is refreshing. Your rhetoric is personal (which is cool) and does not attack the merit of the opinion (which is respectable). I will have to air freight you a case of REAL Canadian brew, none of that fake stuff - you are worthy of a toast...

...

I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

I do, and I don't think you're man enough to follow through on that threat.

I am man enough, but based on your candor beating you in court would be no fun, besides it would not get me any furhter in the cause unless your name was Vixie or Heath... How about a drinking contest chicken shit.... Oh I forgot, you borrowed your liver from your mother.... ;)

...

Girlie man.

Wussie.

I admit publicly that I've colluded to exclude you from the DNS TINC cabal, and you _still_ can't do anything about it.

Bite me.....

Na-na-naa-na-naaaaa-na

Your mother's so fat, she can roll over a dollar bill and make four quarters come out the other side.

Shows what you know..... obviously you haven't got it from her lateley because normally she can make change for a ten..... wimp ---

And your breath smells, too.

It smelled better before I blew you you good ole southern boy...

__

Todd Graham Lewis

The previous exchange is not meant to offend by vulgarity.... I do expect well thought out clever flames in return....

I ever said my marketing people had a fucking clue...... That I will admit to... On Tue, 20 May 1997, w0zz wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations internationally,

He has powerful skills, check it out

"SKYSCAPE is a wiser choice than the large brand-name Internet providers. Using a special process called multi-homing, SKYSCAPE connects you to [^^^^^^^^^^^^^] [^^^^^^^^^^] the Internet through no fewer than four of the most dependable backbone service providers on the market.

Through this unique technology, SKYSCAPE's advanced equipment constantly [^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^] switches between backbone providers to consistently deliver you the most efficient connection possible. What that means is that if iSTAR is loaded with traffic, we will automatically send your transmission through carrier SPRINT or MCI, or through any of the other backbone providers to which we subscribe. This distinct process assures you greater efficiency than any single one of those providers can currently provide on its own. This is especially important in the event of operational difficulties or a full system shut-down. " (http://www.fastlane.ca/about.htm)

With "unique technologies" like "multi-homing" who knows what powers he may have that he hasn't disclosed.

\w0zz

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Ben Black wrote:

cluelessness seems to be the prime requisite for employment at skyscape.

We try hard to please.....

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

I ever said my marketing people had a fucking clue......

That I will admit to...

On Tue, 20 May 1997, w0zz wrote:

...

On Tue, 20 May 1997, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations internationally,

He has powerful skills, check it out

"SKYSCAPE is a wiser choice than the large brand-name Internet providers. Using a special process called multi-homing, SKYSCAPE connects you to [^^^^^^^^^^^^^] [^^^^^^^^^^] the Internet through no fewer than four of the most dependable backbone service providers on the market.

Through this unique technology, SKYSCAPE's advanced equipment constantly [^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^] switches between backbone providers to consistently deliver you the most efficient connection possible. What that means is that if iSTAR is loaded with traffic, we will automatically send your transmission through carrier SPRINT or MCI, or through any of the other backbone providers to which we subscribe. This distinct process assures you greater efficiency than any single one of those providers can currently provide on its own. This is especially important in the event of operational difficulties or a full system shut-down. " (http://www.fastlane.ca/about.htm)

With "unique technologies" like "multi-homing" who knows what powers he may have that he hasn't disclosed.

\w0zz

I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

Marc Hurst

i don't. have to wonder, that is. i'm just the lightning rod on the tip of the iceberg. my private e-mail is running 50:1 in favour of the position i've outlined. on the other hand i'm just "press" from the point of view of the IANA. i don't make policy, but i have certainly been known to editorialize about it.

RANT so sue him then marc........ show that us have the money and the will to hire a lawyer in the US and go after him....but until you do that stop trying to use nanog to threaten and intimidate. ************************************************************************ The COOK Report on Internet For subsc. pricing & more than 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 USA ten megabytes of free material (609) 882-2572 (phone & fax) visit http://cookreport.com/ Internet: cook@cookreport.com On line speech of critics under attack by Ewing NJ School Board, go to http://cookreport.com/sboard.shtml ************************************************************************

Gordon telling someone else to put up or shut up? The irony kills me. E

RANT

so sue him then marc........ show that us have the money and the will to hire a lawyer in the US and go after him....but until you do that stop trying to use nanog to threaten and intimidate.

************************************************************************ The COOK Report on Internet For subsc. pricing & more than 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 USA ten megabytes of free material (609) 882-2572 (phone & fax) visit http://cookreport.com/ Internet: cook@cookreport.com On line speech of critics under attack by Ewing NJ School Board, go to http://cookreport.com/sboard.shtml ************************************************************************

On Wed, 21 May 1997, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

Marc Hurst writes:

...

...

choosing any root name servers other than the 25-year-old IANA set is guaranteed to cost an ISP money in unnecessary tech support and bad public relations.

I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations internationally,

are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?

If the best argument you have at your disposal is the threat of a lawsuit, I suspect that Mr. Vixie has already won his case.

If an international court were to rule in favour of the IANA and the ISOC I would accept that mandate and call it a day. So far I have only seen rulings coming from UScourts...

Perry Speaking personally, and not in any official capacity

On Wed, 21 May 1997, Dave Crocker wrote:

At 11:49 AM -0400 5/21/97, Marc Hurst wrote:

...

So far I have only seen rulings coming from UScourts...

only one, so far, and my oh my it was SOOO supportive of your position, wasn't it?

d/

I don't live in the US, don't currently do business in the US.... Get your head out of the sand. I gave you the PTO info , why don't you broadcast it or are you afraid of something...

-------------------- Dave Crocker +1 408 246 8253 Brandenburg Consulting fax: +1 408 249 6205 675 Spruce Dr. dcrocker@brandenburg.com Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA http://www.brandenburg.com

Internet Mail Consortium http://www.imc.org, info@imc.org

On Thu, 22 May 1997, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

Marc Hurst writes:

...

On Wed, 21 May 1997, Dave Crocker wrote:

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At 11:49 AM -0400 5/21/97, Marc Hurst wrote:

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So far I have only seen rulings coming from UScourts...

only one, so far, and my oh my it was SOOO supportive of your position, wasn't it?

Get your head out of the sand. I gave you the PTO info , why don't you broadcast it or are you afraid of something...

No, Mr. Hurst, you and your friends aren't anything to be afraid of for anyone, in spite of your continual empty threats to use the court systems to get what you can't get by persuasion. As for your petty attempts to abuse trademark law to force people to do your bidding, well, it isn't particularly likely that you'll succeed with them, either. If we have failed to "broadcast it", its because its ignorable.

Ah, Perry, SKYSCAPE ahs not gone to court yet....

Perry Speaking personally, and not in any official capacity

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Even though some people do not think they exist...

...Here are the various Root Name Server Confederations that ISPs can choose between. ISPs should only choose one Confederation. Mixing and matching servers from each Confederation is not recommended.

Of course.

I am willing to side with you and against vixie on the root-servers thing, if you will cut me in on a share of the attendant power and profits when you finally ram edns down everyone's throat.

I'm basically not smart enough or competent enough to earn big money and grab power on my own merits, so i'm always looking for a scheme or a marketing ploy that could beam me up the Ladder of Success.

Sincerely, Bill

I hope you are being sarcastic, but if you are not, I'll cut you in on my profits related to IPv8 as long as you agree to kiss my ass heh. Bradley Reynolds breynolds@harborcom.net ber@cwru.edu PGP Fingerprint: 73 17 77 08 8A 72 DB 45 76 28 C5 5A 97 52 26 PGP Public Key: http://www.harborcom.net/~breynolds/pgp.html