Is something up on uunet tonight? It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
Im not seeing anything coming from qwest. At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote:
Is something up on uunet tonight?
It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
-- David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told "We have to have you e-mail the group" my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet "Well you have to" my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail? "We can't tell you your not a customer" My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you. "Your not my customer I really don't care" *click* Nice. professional too. Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: uunet
Im not seeing anything coming from qwest.
At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote:
Is something up on uunet tonight?
It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
--
David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
I'll copy this email, and keep it for reference when someone asks about buying service from UUnet...thanks... At 17:17 1/18/03 -0800, you wrote:
What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told "We have to have you e-mail the group"
my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet
"Well you have to"
my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail?
"We can't tell you your not a customer"
My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you.
"Your not my customer I really don't care" *click*
Nice. professional too.
Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer?
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: uunet
Im not seeing anything coming from qwest.
At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote:
Is something up on uunet tonight?
It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
--
David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
This type of situation has been extensively discussed and debated here. If you are not UUNet's direct customer (or many other providers for that manner), they likely cannot and will not open a ticket. If MFN is your upstream, open up a ticket with them. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of blitz Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 4:25 AM To: Scott Granados Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: uunet I'll copy this email, and keep it for reference when someone asks about buying service from UUnet...thanks... At 17:17 1/18/03 -0800, you wrote:
What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told "We have to have you e-mail the group"
my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet
"Well you have to"
my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail?
"We can't tell you your not a customer"
My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you.
"Your not my customer I really don't care" *click*
Nice. professional too.
Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer?
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: uunet
Im not seeing anything coming from qwest.
At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote:
Is something up on uunet tonight?
It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
--
David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
"Your not my customer I really don't care" *click* Nice. professional too. I had a similar experience with them - even though we *are* a UUNet customer, we weren't the customer with the problem (in this case, a email address which was a subdomain of the company's main address was being rejected by the UUNet mailservers; a simple misconfiguration during a security lockdown).
after I got a supervisor (phone firewall wasn't even willing to take down details and didn't know what a MX record was), conversation went something like: Me: Hi. I am post admin for $mydomain and I am having trouble sending mail to emailaddress@subdomain.contractorsdomain via server $uunetinboundmail. it is being rejected with error <descriptive text that basically says "this isnt a relay"> Them: you shouldn't be using $inboundmail, you should be using $mydomain_designated_smartmailhost Me: I tried that already - it doesnt' matter if it comes from my mail host or your smarthost, it is still being rejected by $uunetinboundmail Them: if it is being rejected, then it is for a good reason. perhaps it is the wrong server for subdomain.contractorsdomain? Me: that's where the MX record points - and addresses @contractorsdomain are being accepted by that server just fine Them: then the MX record must be wrong - why not contact the DNS provider Me: I am - that is you too. this is one of your customers I am trying to send email to there then followed a short conversation that amounted to that - given that $mydomain was working fine, they would *not* look at the problem for $contractorsdomain unless $contractor contacted them about it. I found postmaster@contractorsdomain worked fine, so managed to get *that* guy to get uunet to fix the problem (and it was literally a thirty second fix). The standard policy for uunet seems to be that following "the system" is more important than actually fixing problems, and problems don't even *exist* unless the customer with the problem notices...... which I find astonishing. someone *must* have the authority to enter new trouble tickets if they notice that a router is spitting sparks without having to get the customer on the far end of that wire to report it for them....
Well just to make this more on topic and operationsl:). It seems to me that for best operation of all networks some means should exist for carriers to talk to each other. Perhaps nanog is it not sure but if mfn has an issue with wireworks than mfn should have a place to call. Like wise if I have a problem be it security or routing with mfn or verizon or whom ever I should be able to call some where or make some sort of request. The nocs at times can handle this but others the published nocs are meant to handle consumer type calls "My winders is broken" and don't understand the nature of a more complex request "your bogan filter isn't updated.". Just for anyone counting, uunet has not corrected the issue or contacted me yet or my upstream whom I've open the ticket with or their peer. Not sure if I should expect only 9 to 5 responses from them though, could be. On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Dave Howe wrote:
"Your not my customer I really don't care" *click* Nice. professional too. I had a similar experience with them - even though we *are* a UUNet customer, we weren't the customer with the problem (in this case, a email address which was a subdomain of the company's main address was being rejected by the UUNet mailservers; a simple misconfiguration during a security lockdown).
after I got a supervisor (phone firewall wasn't even willing to take down details and didn't know what a MX record was), conversation went something like:
Me: Hi. I am post admin for $mydomain and I am having trouble sending mail to emailaddress@subdomain.contractorsdomain via server $uunetinboundmail. it is being rejected with error <descriptive text that basically says "this isnt a relay">
Them: you shouldn't be using $inboundmail, you should be using $mydomain_designated_smartmailhost
Me: I tried that already - it doesnt' matter if it comes from my mail host or your smarthost, it is still being rejected by $uunetinboundmail
Them: if it is being rejected, then it is for a good reason. perhaps it is the wrong server for subdomain.contractorsdomain?
Me: that's where the MX record points - and addresses @contractorsdomain are being accepted by that server just fine
Them: then the MX record must be wrong - why not contact the DNS provider
Me: I am - that is you too. this is one of your customers I am trying to send email to
there then followed a short conversation that amounted to that - given that $mydomain was working fine, they would *not* look at the problem for $contractorsdomain unless $contractor contacted them about it. I found postmaster@contractorsdomain worked fine, so managed to get *that* guy to get uunet to fix the problem (and it was literally a thirty second fix). The standard policy for uunet seems to be that following "the system" is more important than actually fixing problems, and problems don't even *exist* unless the customer with the problem notices...... which I find astonishing. someone *must* have the authority to enter new trouble tickets if they notice that a router is spitting sparks without having to get the customer on the far end of that wire to report it for them....
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Scott Granados wrote: > It seems to me that for best operation of all networks some means should > exist for carriers to talk to each other. http://www.pch.net/inoc-dba/ Every time I've dialed 701, someone more clueful and well-intentioned than myself has answered the phone. :-) -Bill
"Dave Howe" <DaveHowe@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
there then followed a short conversation that amounted to that - given that $mydomain was working fine, they would *not* look at the problem for $contractorsdomain unless $contractor contacted them about it. I found postmaster@contractorsdomain worked fine, so managed to get *that* guy to get uunet to fix the problem (and it was literally a thirty second fix).
You can hardly expect an ISP to change an MX record on the opinion (right or wrong) of a third party. It could be someone trying a little social engineering. The customer or ISP could be in the middle of some DNS changes. It could be someone talking out of their backside. This kind of request for change needs to come through the proper channels from the customer or their nominated point of contact. TT
On Sun, Jan 19, 2003 at 10:26:16PM +0000, Tim Thorne wrote:
"Dave Howe" <DaveHowe@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
there then followed a short conversation that amounted to that - given that $mydomain was working fine, they would *not* look at the problem for $contractorsdomain unless $contractor contacted them about it. I found postmaster@contractorsdomain worked fine, so managed to get *that* guy to get uunet to fix the problem (and it was literally a thirty second fix).
You can hardly expect an ISP to change an MX record on the opinion (right or wrong) of a third party. It could be someone trying a little
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster wasn't trying to get UUnet to change an MX record. Rather, the uunet-provided MX host for the domain was not set up to 'relay' mail for that domain, and the original poster was trying to get UUnet to fix their MTA config. -j
Its just unfortunate that some companies not mentioning names feel this is good practice. Others don't feel this way which is a good thing. Just a note, uunet wouldn't take my call when a ddos attach originated on their network either. Same response with the exception of "Well we don't have security persons available after hours so write us an e-mail and you may get a response within 48 hours". Which to me sounded just plain wrong because I've seen threds onhere to the contrary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "blitz" <blitz@macronet.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 1:24 AM Subject: Re: uunet
I'll copy this email, and keep it for reference when someone asks about buying service from UUnet...thanks...
At 17:17 1/18/03 -0800, you wrote:
What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told "We have to have you e-mail the group"
my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet
"Well you have to"
my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail?
"We can't tell you your not a customer"
My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you.
"Your not my customer I really don't care" *click*
Nice. professional too.
Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer?
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: uunet
Im not seeing anything coming from qwest.
At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote:
Is something up on uunet tonight?
It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
--
David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
At 02:26 PM 19-01-03 -0800, Scott Granados wrote: I don't believe Chris sleeps, ever. -Hank
Its just unfortunate that some companies not mentioning names feel this is good practice. Others don't feel this way which is a good thing. Just a note, uunet wouldn't take my call when a ddos attach originated on their network either. Same response with the exception of "Well we don't have security persons available after hours so write us an e-mail and you may get a response within 48 hours". Which to me sounded just plain wrong because I've seen threds onhere to the contrary.
I can verify that. David Barak --Fully RFC 1925 Compliant-- --- Hank Nussbacher <hank@att.net.il> wrote:
At 02:26 PM 19-01-03 -0800, Scott Granados wrote:
I don't believe Chris sleeps, ever.
-Hank
Its just unfortunate that some companies not mentioning names feel this is good practice. Others don't feel this way which is a good thing. Just a note, uunet wouldn't take my call when a ddos attach originated on their network either. Same response with the exception of "Well we don't have security persons available after hours so write us an e-mail and you may get a response within 48 hours". Which to me sounded just plain wrong because I've seen threds onhere to the contrary.
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
At 02:26 PM 19-01-03 -0800, Scott Granados wrote:
I don't believe Chris sleeps, ever.
I do, and I ski :) (and play hockey)... except for hockey I have a cell phone near me... and mostly the other 4 people are available too :)
-Hank
Its just unfortunate that some companies not mentioning names feel this is good practice. Others don't feel this way which is a good thing. Just a note, uunet wouldn't take my call when a ddos attach originated on their network either. Same response with the exception of "Well we don't have security persons available after hours so write us an e-mail and you may get a response within 48 hours". Which to me sounded just plain wrong because I've seen threds onhere to the contrary.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Scott Granados wrote:
network either. Same response with the exception of "Well we don't have security persons available after hours so write us an e-mail and you may get a response within 48 hours". Which to me sounded just plain wrong because I've seen threds onhere to the contrary.
ah.. wrong, we have folks on call/staff 24/7/365... hmm.
----- Original Message ----- From: "blitz" <blitz@macronet.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 1:24 AM Subject: Re: uunet
I'll copy this email, and keep it for reference when someone asks about buying service from UUnet...thanks...
At 17:17 1/18/03 -0800, you wrote:
What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told "We have to have you e-mail the group"
my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet
"Well you have to"
my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail?
"We can't tell you your not a customer"
My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you.
"Your not my customer I really don't care" *click*
Nice. professional too.
Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer?
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: uunet
Im not seeing anything coming from qwest.
At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote:
Is something up on uunet tonight?
It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
--
David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
I have a suggestion for UUNET's backbone engineering folks: Please, create a fake customer ID and publish it, so outside folks could file trouble reports regarding routing issues within UUNET. --vadim On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Scott Granados wrote:
What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told "We have to have you e-mail the group"
my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet
"Well you have to"
my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail?
"We can't tell you your not a customer"
My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you.
"Your not my customer I really don't care" *click*
Nice. professional too.
Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer?
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: uunet
Im not seeing anything coming from qwest.
At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote:
Is something up on uunet tonight?
It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon as I leave mfn's network and hit uunet.
--
David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
Someone might read this as inflation of customer base numbers... has this company been involved in scandals recently ? :-) Rubens ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vadim Antonov" <avg@kotovnik.com> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:36 PM Subject: Re: uunet | | | I have a suggestion for UUNET's backbone engineering folks: | | Please, create a fake customer ID and publish it, so outside folks could | file trouble reports regarding routing issues within UUNET. | | --vadim | | | On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Scott Granados wrote: | | > | > What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told | > "We have to have you e-mail the group" | > | > my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet | > | > "Well you have to" | > | > my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail? | > | > "We can't tell you your not a customer" | > | > My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you. | > | > "Your not my customer I really don't care" *click* | > | > Nice. professional too. | > | > Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer? | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> | > To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> | > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM | > Subject: Re: uunet | > | > | > > Im not seeing anything coming from qwest. | > > | > > | > > | > > At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote: | > > >Is something up on uunet tonight? | > > > | > > >It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it | > > >looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon | > as | > > >I leave mfn's network and hit uunet. | > > | > > -- | > > | > > David Diaz | > > dave@smoton.net [Email] | > > pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] | > > www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] | > > Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons | > > | > > | > > | > |
Only if they include it in the growth, performance, or other metrics. I would _hope_ that it would have the worst tickets/revenue ratio in their database, but you never know... DJ
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Jr. Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:26 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: uunet
Someone might read this as inflation of customer base numbers... has this company been involved in scandals recently ? :-)
Rubens
----- Original Message ----- From: "Vadim Antonov" <avg@kotovnik.com> To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:36 PM Subject: Re: uunet
| | | I have a suggestion for UUNET's backbone engineering folks: | | Please, create a fake customer ID and publish it, so outside folks could | file trouble reports regarding routing issues within UUNET. | | --vadim | | | On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Scott Granados wrote: | | > | > What's interesting is that I just tried to call the noc and was told | > "We have to have you e-mail the group" | > | > my response, I can't I have no route working to uunet | > | > "Well you have to" | > | > my response, ok I'll use someone elses mail box where do I mail? | > | > "We can't tell you your not a customer" | > | > My response its a routing issue do you have somewhere I can e-mail you. | > | > "Your not my customer I really don't care" *click* | > | > Nice. professional too. | > | > Anyone have a number to the noc that someone with clue might answer? | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "David Diaz" <techlist@smoton.net> | > To: "Scott Granados" <scott@wworks.net>; <nanog@merit.edu> | > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:35 PM | > Subject: Re: uunet | > | > | > > Im not seeing anything coming from qwest. | > > | > > | > > | > > At 16:55 -0800 1/18/03, Scott Granados wrote: | > > >Is something up on uunet tonight? | > > > | > > >It looks to me that dns is broken forward and reverse but more likely it | > > >looks like a bad bogan fiilter popped up suddenly. I have issue as soon | > as | > > >I leave mfn's network and hit uunet. | > > | > > -- | > > | > > David Diaz | > > dave@smoton.net [Email] | > > pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] | > > www.smoton.net [Peering Site under development] | > > Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons | > > | > > | > > | > |
participants (14)
-
Bill Woodcock -
blitz -
Christopher L. Morrow -
Dave Howe -
David Barak -
David Diaz -
Deepak Jain -
Hank Nussbacher -
Jeff Wasilko -
Rubens Kuhl Jr. -
Scott Granados -
tim.thorne＠btinternet.com -
Vadim Antonov -
Wojtek Zlobicki