N91 Women mixer on Sunday?
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark. The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women. Does anyone else feel the same? -- *Ilissa Miller* *CEO, iMiller Public Relations <http://www.imillerpr.com>*
While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The hackathon has for (as far as I’ve known about it) been on Sunday. I don’t work on Sundays - it’s a day for my family (unless the almighty pager goes off), so I’ve never gone - even though it’s one of the parts of NANOG I’d enjoy, and would benefit from the most. There are tradeoffs for everything - perhaps the idea was to keep the women’s mixer separate from the other evening events, so that those who wish to participate, can do all of the evening events, and not have to give up anything, at the cost of the extra day. That being said, I agree, moving more to Sunday is not an acceptable answer to me. Best Regards, -Thomas Scott On Mar 28, 2024 at 1:45:07 PM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender.
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women.
Does anyone else feel the same?
-- *Ilissa Miller* *CEO, iMiller Public Relations <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.imillerpr.com__;!!I6uDfDBXfA!181DBJ-FtVXbxl2Cf3GD05kg0qsfnD4gdtQI9hJ64xq3Q6B0MHGT1XNwKAr9Vv-qdyTXEvwN7JrbIVyu$>*
Illissa, The mixer is at 5pm Sunday, this allows people to network and prepare for the week. Sunday also has a hackathon, registration, and often a welcome social. NANOG has a very compressed schedule and another time would actually mean that the women participating would have to pick between this event and another event or talk that may be critical to their job function, which is also unfair. We are advertising this mixer to make sure all are aware and can attend, and the mixers will be on the schedule at the same approximate time at each meeting going forward. I hope we will see you there. Tina Morris On Mar 28, 2024, at 14:12, Thomas Scott <mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com> wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The hackathon has for (as far as I’ve known about it) been on Sunday. I don’t work on Sundays - it’s a day for my family (unless the almighty pager goes off), so I’ve never gone - even though it’s one of the parts of NANOG I’d enjoy, and would benefit from the most. There are tradeoffs for everything - perhaps the idea was to keep the women’s mixer separate from the other evening events, so that those who wish to participate, can do all of the evening events, and not have to give up anything, at the cost of the extra day. That being said, I agree, moving more to Sunday is not an acceptable answer to me. Best Regards, -Thomas Scott On Mar 28, 2024 at 1:45:07 PM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com<mailto:ilissa@imillerpr.com>> wrote: For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender. ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark. The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women. Does anyone else feel the same? -- Ilissa Miller CEO, iMiller Public Relations<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.imillerpr.com__;!!I6uDfDBXfA!181DBJ-FtVXbxl2Cf3GD05kg0qsfnD4gdtQI9hJ64xq3Q6B0MHGT1XNwKAr9Vv-qdyTXEvwN7JrbIVyu$>
I beg to differ here and second Ilissa’s comments. I miss WiT. Lunch during the meeting worked. Giving up more of the weekend to travel does not show half the population gathering matters. On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 15:16 Morris, Tina via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Illissa, The mixer is at 5pm Sunday, this allows people to network and prepare for the week. Sunday also has a hackathon, registration, and often a welcome social. NANOG has a very compressed schedule and another time would actually mean that the women participating would have to pick between this event and another event or talk that may be critical to their job function, which is also unfair.
We are advertising this mixer to make sure all are aware and can attend, and the mixers will be on the schedule at the same approximate time at each meeting going forward.
I hope we will see you there.
Tina Morris
On Mar 28, 2024, at 14:12, Thomas Scott <mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com> wrote:
*CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The hackathon has for (as far as I’ve known about it) been on Sunday. I don’t work on Sundays - it’s a day for my family (unless the almighty pager goes off), so I’ve never gone - even though it’s one of the parts of NANOG I’d enjoy, and would benefit from the most.
There are tradeoffs for everything - perhaps the idea was to keep the women’s mixer separate from the other evening events, so that those who wish to participate, can do all of the evening events, and not have to give up anything, at the cost of the extra day. That being said, I agree, moving more to Sunday is not an acceptable answer to me.
Best Regards, -Thomas Scott
On Mar 28, 2024 at 1:45:07 PM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender.
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG
matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women.
Does anyone else feel the same?
-- *Ilissa Miller* *CEO, iMiller Public Relations <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.imillerpr.com__;!!I6uDfDBXfA!181DBJ-FtVXbxl2Cf3GD05kg0qsfnD4gdtQI9hJ64xq3Q6B0MHGT1XNwKAr9Vv-qdyTXEvwN7JrbIVyu$>*
It's easily fixed by having a mixer at the same time for the other half of the gathering population thus showing all the population gathering matters equally. On 29 March 2024 2:50:19 pm ACDT, Ren Provo <ren.provo@gmail.com> wrote:
I beg to differ here and second Ilissa’s comments. I miss WiT. Lunch during the meeting worked. Giving up more of the weekend to travel does not show half the population gathering matters.
On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 15:16 Morris, Tina via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Illissa, The mixer is at 5pm Sunday, this allows people to network and prepare for the week. Sunday also has a hackathon, registration, and often a welcome social. NANOG has a very compressed schedule and another time would actually mean that the women participating would have to pick between this event and another event or talk that may be critical to their job function, which is also unfair.
We are advertising this mixer to make sure all are aware and can attend, and the mixers will be on the schedule at the same approximate time at each meeting going forward.
I hope we will see you there.
Tina Morris
On Mar 28, 2024, at 14:12, Thomas Scott <mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com> wrote:
*CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The hackathon has for (as far as I’ve known about it) been on Sunday. I don’t work on Sundays - it’s a day for my family (unless the almighty pager goes off), so I’ve never gone - even though it’s one of the parts of NANOG I’d enjoy, and would benefit from the most.
There are tradeoffs for everything - perhaps the idea was to keep the women’s mixer separate from the other evening events, so that those who wish to participate, can do all of the evening events, and not have to give up anything, at the cost of the extra day. That being said, I agree, moving more to Sunday is not an acceptable answer to me.
Best Regards, -Thomas Scott
On Mar 28, 2024 at 1:45:07 PM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender.
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG
matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women.
Does anyone else feel the same?
-- *Ilissa Miller* *CEO, iMiller Public Relations <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.imillerpr.com__;!!I6uDfDBXfA!181DBJ-FtVXbxl2Cf3GD05kg0qsfnD4gdtQI9hJ64xq3Q6B0MHGT1XNwKAr9Vv-qdyTXEvwN7JrbIVyu$>*
On 3/29/24 07:03, Eric Parsonage wrote:
It's easily fixed by having a mixer at the same time for the other half of the gathering population thus showing all the population gathering matters equally.
My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think I recall one of the early WiT lunches hosted at NANOG that was women-only, where some men were upset for being "left out". Whether that was good or bad is less important than understanding what the outcome of a women-only activity is for women, especially for those for whom it may not be immediately obvious. While equal access to opportunity between the genders is the most effective policy, I think there is utility in women having their own session, given that they face unique challenges in an industry where they are the minority operators. Mark.
My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think I recall one of the early WiT lunches hosted at NANOG that was women-only, where some men were upset for being "left out". Whether that was good or bad is less important than understanding what the outcome of a women-only activity is for women, especially for those for whom it may not be immediately obvious.
My recollection is that every WiT lunch was always open to all. Happy to be corrected if any were that I don't recall. There were definitely a few meetings during my PC years that someone complained that men were not allowed to attend. If my memory serves me correctly, we at one point were asking session moderators to remind people of this in general session for a while too. For some meetings, a few of us were standing at the doors telling people who asked that men were allowed to attend that if they would like. On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 1:34 AM Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:
On 3/29/24 07:03, Eric Parsonage wrote:
It's easily fixed by having a mixer at the same time for the other half of the gathering population thus showing all the population gathering matters equally.
My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think I recall one of the early WiT lunches hosted at NANOG that was women-only, where some men were upset for being "left out". Whether that was good or bad is less important than understanding what the outcome of a women-only activity is for women, especially for those for whom it may not be immediately obvious.
While equal access to opportunity between the genders is the most effective policy, I think there is utility in women having their own session, given that they face unique challenges in an industry where they are the minority operators.
Mark.
On 3/29/24 18:23, Tom Beecher wrote:
My recollection is that every WiT lunch was always open to all. Happy to be corrected if any were that I don't recall.
There were definitely a few meetings during my PC years that someone complained that men were not allowed to attend. If my memory serves me correctly, we at one point were asking session moderators to remind people of this in general session for a while too. For some meetings, a few of us were standing at the doors telling people who asked that men were allowed to attend that if they would like.
I can't remember which year it was, but my recollection was hearing the complaints from the men that were upset during the evening social. Admittedly, I did not hear this from what I would term "the majority of men" at that specific meeting, so it would be disingenuous to state, with any authority, that this is how the majority of men felt/feel about the WiT lunch. Having said all that, for the avoidance of doubt (and as Tina has already indicated for NANOG 91), it might be worth mentioning, before and throughout the conference, that while it is a WiT lunch, all attendees are welcome to join if that is, indeed, the intended format. Mark.
We still have a lunch, it is welcome to all as it always has been. It has been widened to talk about many aspects of DEI. The NANOG PC is charged with putting a talk up on the stage just before then we continue the conversation during lunch. The mixer is an additional thing we are doing that is very intentional to drive connection, inclusion, and networking for those that identify as female. Given we are only 10-12% of the population at NANOG, I have received direct feedback from newcomers that this was very helpful for them to have a successful first meeting. The hope is by doing it Sunday afternoon at 5pm people will be arriving for the meeting Monday morning. As most travel on Sunday anyway. Tina Morris On Mar 29, 2024, at 01:05, Eric Parsonage <eric@eparsonage.com> wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe. It's easily fixed by having a mixer at the same time for the other half of the gathering population thus showing all the population gathering matters equally. On 29 March 2024 2:50:19 pm ACDT, Ren Provo <ren.provo@gmail.com> wrote: I beg to differ here and second Ilissa’s comments. I miss WiT. Lunch during the meeting worked. Giving up more of the weekend to travel does not show half the population gathering matters. On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 15:16 Morris, Tina via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: Illissa, The mixer is at 5pm Sunday, this allows people to network and prepare for the week. Sunday also has a hackathon, registration, and often a welcome social. NANOG has a very compressed schedule and another time would actually mean that the women participating would have to pick between this event and another event or talk that may be critical to their job function, which is also unfair. We are advertising this mixer to make sure all are aware and can attend, and the mixers will be on the schedule at the same approximate time at each meeting going forward. I hope we will see you there. Tina Morris On Mar 28, 2024, at 14:12, Thomas Scott <mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com<mailto:mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com>> wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The hackathon has for (as far as I’ve known about it) been on Sunday. I don’t work on Sundays - it’s a day for my family (unless the almighty pager goes off), so I’ve never gone - even though it’s one of the parts of NANOG I’d enjoy, and would benefit from the most. There are tradeoffs for everything - perhaps the idea was to keep the women’s mixer separate from the other evening events, so that those who wish to participate, can do all of the evening events, and not have to give up anything, at the cost of the extra day. That being said, I agree, moving more to Sunday is not an acceptable answer to me. Best Regards, -Thomas Scott On Mar 28, 2024 at 1:45:07 PM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com<mailto:ilissa@imillerpr.com>> wrote: For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender. ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark. The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women. Does anyone else feel the same? -- Ilissa Miller CEO, iMiller Public Relations<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.imillerpr.com__;!!I6uDfDBXfA!181DBJ-FtVXbxl2Cf3GD05kg0qsfnD4gdtQI9hJ64xq3Q6B0MHGT1XNwKAr9Vv-qdyTXEvwN7JrbIVyu$>
I don't think anything is 'easily fixed' on this topic. I do however hope that everyone accepts at face value that the board, staff, and PC are *trying* to do the right things here. Doesn't mean that it *will* always be the right thing, or even that a majority of people can agree on what the right thing actually is. On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 1:05 AM Eric Parsonage <eric@eparsonage.com> wrote:
It's easily fixed by having a mixer at the same time for the other half of the gathering population thus showing all the population gathering matters equally.
On 29 March 2024 2:50:19 pm ACDT, Ren Provo <ren.provo@gmail.com> wrote:
I beg to differ here and second Ilissa’s comments. I miss WiT. Lunch during the meeting worked. Giving up more of the weekend to travel does not show half the population gathering matters.
On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 15:16 Morris, Tina via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:
Illissa, The mixer is at 5pm Sunday, this allows people to network and prepare for the week. Sunday also has a hackathon, registration, and often a welcome social. NANOG has a very compressed schedule and another time would actually mean that the women participating would have to pick between this event and another event or talk that may be critical to their job function, which is also unfair.
We are advertising this mixer to make sure all are aware and can attend, and the mixers will be on the schedule at the same approximate time at each meeting going forward.
I hope we will see you there.
Tina Morris
On Mar 28, 2024, at 14:12, Thomas Scott <mr.thomas.scott@gmail.com> wrote:
*CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The hackathon has for (as far as I’ve known about it) been on Sunday. I don’t work on Sundays - it’s a day for my family (unless the almighty pager goes off), so I’ve never gone - even though it’s one of the parts of NANOG I’d enjoy, and would benefit from the most.
There are tradeoffs for everything - perhaps the idea was to keep the women’s mixer separate from the other evening events, so that those who wish to participate, can do all of the evening events, and not have to give up anything, at the cost of the extra day. That being said, I agree, moving more to Sunday is not an acceptable answer to me.
Best Regards, -Thomas Scott
On Mar 28, 2024 at 1:45:07 PM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender.
ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG
matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women.
Does anyone else feel the same?
-- *Ilissa Miller* *CEO, iMiller Public Relations <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.imillerpr.com__;!!I6uDfDBXfA!181DBJ-FtVXbxl2Cf3GD05kg0qsfnD4gdtQI9hJ64xq3Q6B0MHGT1XNwKAr9Vv-qdyTXEvwN7JrbIVyu$>*
On 3/29/24 18:31, Tom Beecher wrote:
I don't think anything is 'easily fixed' on this topic.
I do however hope that everyone accepts at face value that the board, staff, and PC are *trying* to do the right things here. Doesn't mean that it *will* always be the right thing, or even that a majority of people can agree on what the right thing actually is.
As I always say on matters such as these, "More talking is better than less talking". And as uncomfortable as such discussions are to have, we get closer to a reasonable solution when we talk, and less so when we don't. Mark.
On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 11:17 PM Eric Parsonage <eric@eparsonage.com> wrote:
It's easily fixed by having a mixer at the same time for the other half of the gathering population thus showing all the population gathering matters equally.
I believe the mixer for the other half of the gathering population has been going on for decades, and is generally referred to as "drinks at the hotel lobby bar". Just because it isn't called out by name doesn't mean that the male half of the population hasn't been meeting and mixing and mingling already for years. ;-P I'm with Randy Bush on this. The stakeholders in that event should have the say in what happens with it; not the rest of us. Those of us old white males need to check our privilege, and recognize that we've *been* having "mixers" for decades. We don't need to put a stake in the ground and push for our equality; we've already been on the beneficiary side of the inequality for decades. Matt
Matt, For a variety of cultural, religious and philosophical beliefs not everyone can, or wants to enter a bar. So perhaps the experience isn't as universal as you perceive it to be? Eric On 30 March 2024 6:18:30 am ACDT, Matthew Petach <mpetach@netflight.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 11:17 PM Eric Parsonage <eric@eparsonage.com> wrote:
It's easily fixed by having a mixer at the same time for the other half of the gathering population thus showing all the population gathering matters equally.
I believe the mixer for the other half of the gathering population has been going on for decades, and is generally referred to as "drinks at the hotel lobby bar". Just because it isn't called out by name doesn't mean that the male half of the population hasn't been meeting and mixing and mingling already for years. ;-P
I'm with Randy Bush on this. The stakeholders in that event should have the say in what happens with it; not the rest of us. Those of us old white males need to check our privilege, and recognize that we've *been* having "mixers" for decades. We don't need to put a stake in the ground and push for our equality; we've already been on the beneficiary side of the inequality for decades.
Matt
On 3/29/24 21:48, Matthew Petach wrote:
I'm with Randy Bush on this. The stakeholders in that event should have the say in what happens with it; not the rest of us.
While I agree that women would know best how they want to socialize for their own interests, I don't think that men engaging in this discussion means they are necessarily prescribing how women should do that. All I have seen so far are opinions and suggestions to a concern the OP raised, not dictation on what will eventually happen.
Those of us old white males need to check our privilege, and recognize that we've *been* having "mixers" for decades. We don't need to put a stake in the ground and push for our equality; we've already been on the beneficiary side of the inequality for decades.
I also do not think that male guilt is necessary for women to achieve good outcomes in our shared industry. A complimentary working relationship could be remarkably more productive, than not. Mark.
How do you know the poster's gender?? On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:26 AM Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
https://pleroma.pch.net/media/59934e723985a9d0eb476eda11ca090f602091190d11d1...
-Bill
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:38 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
How do you know the poster's gender??
Howdy, As Josh is an uncommon female name, I'm going to play the odds and say that like Bill and I, you're male. Am I mistaken? Regards. Bill Herrin -- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
On 3/30/24 08:22, William Herrin wrote:
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:38 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
How do you know the poster's gender??
Howdy,
As Josh is an uncommon female name, I'm going to play the odds and say that like Bill and I, you're male. Am I mistaken?
Mike Godwin is also male. The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised to hear from his fan club soon. -- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
Well, Billie goes both ways :) Sorry, couldn’t resist. -mel
On Mar 30, 2024, at 8:47 AM, Jay Hennigan <jay@west.net> wrote:
On 3/30/24 08:22, William Herrin wrote:
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:38 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: How do you know the poster's gender?? Howdy, As Josh is an uncommon female name, I'm going to play the odds and say that like Bill and I, you're male. Am I mistaken?
Mike Godwin is also male. The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised to hear from his fan club soon.
-- Jay Hennigan - jay@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 9:55 AM Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
Well, Billie goes both ways :)
Hi Mel, Billie is usually female while Billy is usually male. Same sound, different spelling. Regards, Bill (Billy in my youth) Herrin -- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
Don't assume my gender. You'll offend me. That's a lot of manual work lol... On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 11:22 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:38 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
How do you know the poster's gender??
Howdy,
As Josh is an uncommon female name, I'm going to play the odds and say that like Bill and I, you're male. Am I mistaken?
Regards. Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
Why if they identify as a billy-goat? Thanks, Ameen Pishdadi Gigenet.com / ameen@gigenet.com On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 8:36 PM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
Don't assume my gender. You'll offend me.
That's a lot of manual work lol...
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 11:22 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:38 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
How do you know the poster's gender??
Howdy,
As Josh is an uncommon female name, I'm going to play the odds and say that like Bill and I, you're male. Am I mistaken?
Regards. Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
ROFL. networking is a stream of zeros and one's. You are either 0 or 1 :)) On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 5:31 PM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
Don't assume my gender. You'll offend me.
That's a lot of manual work lol...
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 11:22 AM William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 7:38 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
How do you know the poster's gender??
Howdy,
As Josh is an uncommon female name, I'm going to play the odds and say that like Bill and I, you're male. Am I mistaken?
Regards. Bill Herrin
-- William Herrin bill@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/
On 4/1/24 07:14, chris wrote:
ROFL. networking is a stream of zeros and one's. You are either 0 or 1 :))
Completely ignoring the real hardware layer where it's all about eye diagrams, transitioning constantly. Between voltage levels. Or I guess lumens. Or phase shifts. Pick your poison^H^H^H^H^H^Htransport medium. Your welcome!
On 3/29/24 06:20, Ren Provo wrote:
I beg to differ here and second Ilissa’s comments. I miss WiT. Lunch during the meeting worked. Giving up more of the weekend to travel does not show half the population gathering matters.
It would be interesting to survey the % of attending women who: - Would be able to make the mixer. - Would not be able to make the mixer due to family commitments. - Would not be able to make the mixer due to non-family commitments. - Would prefer a different women's meeting format and/or activity. I think this data would be useful because while some women may voice difficulty with attending the mixer (or wanting a different women's meeting format/activity), it might be premature to attribute that difficulty to all women that would be in attendance. Understanding where the majority of women lie can help the NANOG PC make better decisions about how to support both the majority and minority of women as it pertains to a mixer or other activity women may like to participate in at or around the conference. Mark.
On 3/28/24 19:45, Ilissa Miller wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
Minds are hard to read, so asking the question before being offended is not an unproductive endeavour. That said, we are here now.
The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women.
Does anyone else feel the same?
If you have a better suggestion on what would work best, I'd be keen to hear it. Mark.
There was a Women in Tech Mixer on Sunday in Charlotte as well. As I recall there was a pretty decent attendance. During my time on the PC, we always got a lot of feedback about Sunday when the topic came up. Some members were strongly opposed to anything on Sunday and didn't even like the Hackathon there. Others wanted expansion, and more things slotted in. There certainly wasn't anything remotely close to a consensus. Sometimes people can make it in early on Sunday. Sometimes they can't. There's no one size fits all answer. I'm not sure people realize how much crap that staff and the PC get *every meeting* about the agenda. There's always someone unhappy because this event wasn't the same, or why was it in this room over here, or OMG Wed afternoon, etc. Having seen how that sausage gets made, they don't get enough credit. In my opinion, they found a spot that they had room for, and if people can make it with their schedules, then great. If not, hopefully a future slot can work. On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 1:46 PM Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters due to my past affiliation, however, I just saw that NANOG announced the Women mixer on Sunday before NANOG 91 and am outraged for all of the young professional women who would like to participate in NANOG. While the times are changing, women continue to remain primary caregivers for families and this will require them to desert their families a day early. I find it offensive personally and feel like you may have missed the mark.
The amount of times I hear people complain about having to leave their families is one of the reasons this industry has a problem keeping young people - especially women.
Does anyone else feel the same?
-- *Ilissa Miller* *CEO, iMiller Public Relations <http://www.imillerpr.com>*
I'm not sure people realize how much crap that staff and the PC get *every meeting* about the agenda. There's always someone unhappy because this event wasn't the same, or why was it in this room over here, or OMG Wed afternoon, etc. Having seen how that sausage gets made, they don't get enough credit.
Having been the chair of the Asilomar Microcomputer workshop, and the founder and chair of the original Email Deliverability Summits, as well as organizing many legal conferences, I have to say "^^^ this, 1000%." Furthermore:
On Mar 28, 2024, at 11:45 AM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters
..and you haven't here, either. Pointing fingers and griping about things is not constructive. If you really care about this issue, then get involved and help change it. Anne --- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Internet Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Hi, Anne- I'm sure that your time was better spent gathering the "credentials" in your signature, but I checked the last 20 or so NANOG meetings and didn't see a single registration from you, so perhaps stay out of things you know literally nothing about. If it weren't for Ilissa, NANOG would not exist in the form that it does today, and she's done more work on and off the clock driving the success of the organization and their meetings than she takes credit for. NANOG, and especially the women that attend NANOG, owe her a tremendous debt of gratitude. Her opinion, and Tina's response, are literally the only ones that carry any weight in this thread, period. -- Drive Slow, Paul Wall Rapper, Retired, and Actor Swishahouse Alum Author: Get Money, Stay True Nominated: Best Rap Performance as a Duo or Group Winner: Best Rap Collaboration Winner: Best Rap/R&B Collaboration Winner: Taste Maker (Style and Trendsetter) Contributor: Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition for Xbox and PlayStation 2 – "Sittin' Sidewayz" Author: The Peoples Champ Emeritus: Houston University (no degree) On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 3:24 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
I'm not sure people realize how much crap that staff and the PC get *every meeting* about the agenda. There's always someone unhappy because this event wasn't the same, or why was it in this room over here, or OMG Wed afternoon, etc. Having seen how that sausage gets made, they don't get enough credit.
Having been the chair of the Asilomar Microcomputer workshop, and the founder and chair of the original Email Deliverability Summits, as well as organizing many legal conferences, I have to say "^^^ this, 1000%."
Furthermore:
On Mar 28, 2024, at 11:45 AM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters
..and you haven't here, either. Pointing fingers and griping about things is not constructive. If you really care about this issue, then get involved and help change it.
Anne
--- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Internet Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 3:24 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
I'm not sure people realize how much crap that staff and the PC get *every meeting* about the agenda. There's always someone unhappy because this event wasn't the same, or why was it in this room over here, or OMG Wed afternoon, etc. Having seen how that sausage gets made, they don't get enough credit.
Having been the chair of the Asilomar Microcomputer workshop, and the founder and chair of the original Email Deliverability Summits, as well as organizing many legal conferences, I have to say "^^^ this, 1000%."
Furthermore:
On Mar 28, 2024, at 11:45 AM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters
..and you haven't here, either. Pointing fingers and griping about things is not constructive. If you really care about this issue, then get involved and help change it.
Anne
--- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Internet Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Paul, Anne's opinion is just as valid as the others here. I have also browsed through the recent attendee lists and do not see you listed either, pot calling the kettle black. Your comments about her email signature and which voices are valid here, are not productive. We are allowed to back up and/or side with whomever we please, even if it includes the NANOG board, staff, and committee members. We are also allowed to call people out on their behavior towards others. Anyway, no one truly knows how many people could have raised the scheduling issue with various committee members, the board, staff, or provided feedback via the contact form on the website, and who knows it could have come from young women. Those voices do not have to come from the mailing list, to be just as valid as ours. Ryan Hamel ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+ryan=rkhtech.org@nanog.org> on behalf of Paul WALL <pauldotwall@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 5:22 PM To: Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <amitchell@isipp.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: N91 Women mixer on Sunday? Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take care when clicking links or opening attachments. Hi, Anne- I'm sure that your time was better spent gathering the "credentials" in your signature, but I checked the last 20 or so NANOG meetings and didn't see a single registration from you, so perhaps stay out of things you know literally nothing about. If it weren't for Ilissa, NANOG would not exist in the form that it does today, and she's done more work on and off the clock driving the success of the organization and their meetings than she takes credit for. NANOG, and especially the women that attend NANOG, owe her a tremendous debt of gratitude. Her opinion, and Tina's response, are literally the only ones that carry any weight in this thread, period. -- Drive Slow, Paul Wall Rapper, Retired, and Actor Swishahouse Alum Author: Get Money, Stay True Nominated: Best Rap Performance as a Duo or Group Winner: Best Rap Collaboration Winner: Best Rap/R&B Collaboration Winner: Taste Maker (Style and Trendsetter) Contributor: Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition for Xbox and PlayStation 2 – "Sittin' Sidewayz" Author: The Peoples Champ Emeritus: Houston University (no degree) On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 3:24 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
I'm not sure people realize how much crap that staff and the PC get *every meeting* about the agenda. There's always someone unhappy because this event wasn't the same, or why was it in this room over here, or OMG Wed afternoon, etc. Having seen how that sausage gets made, they don't get enough credit.
Having been the chair of the Asilomar Microcomputer workshop, and the founder and chair of the original Email Deliverability Summits, as well as organizing many legal conferences, I have to say "^^^ this, 1000%."
Furthermore:
On Mar 28, 2024, at 11:45 AM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters
..and you haven't here, either. Pointing fingers and griping about things is not constructive. If you really care about this issue, then get involved and help change it.
Anne
--- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Internet Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 3:24 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
I'm not sure people realize how much crap that staff and the PC get *every meeting* about the agenda. There's always someone unhappy because this event wasn't the same, or why was it in this room over here, or OMG Wed afternoon, etc. Having seen how that sausage gets made, they don't get enough credit.
Having been the chair of the Asilomar Microcomputer workshop, and the founder and chair of the original Email Deliverability Summits, as well as organizing many legal conferences, I have to say "^^^ this, 1000%."
Furthermore:
On Mar 28, 2024, at 11:45 AM, Ilissa Miller <ilissa@imillerpr.com> wrote:
For those that know me, I rarely provide constructive input about NANOG matters
..and you haven't here, either. Pointing fingers and griping about things is not constructive. If you really care about this issue, then get involved and help change it.
Anne
--- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Internet Law & Policy Attorney CEO Institute for Social Internet Public Policy (ISIPP) Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing law) Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
On 3/30/24 03:45, Ryan Hamel wrote:
Paul,
Anne's opinion is just as valid as the others here. I have also browsed through the recent attendee lists and do not see you listed either, pot calling the kettle black. Your comments about her email signature and which voices are valid here, are not productive. We are allowed to back up and/or side with whomever we please, even if it includes the NANOG board, staff, and committee members. We are also allowed to call people out on their behavior towards others.
Agreed. Constructive dialogue makes no requirement for prior or final agreement. More talking is better than less talking, especially when we disagree.
Anyway, no one truly knows how many people could have raised the scheduling issue with various committee members, the board, staff, or provided feedback via the contact form on the website, and who knows it could have come from young women. Those voices do not have to come from the mailing list, to be just as valid as ours.
I'd imagine that data would, at the very least, be with the PC and other members of NANOG staff; and in a manner that they can use to derive reasonable solutions for the future. Mark.
I'm sure that your time was better spent gathering the "credentials" in your signature, but I checked the last 20 or so NANOG meetings and didn't see a single registration from you, so perhaps stay out of things you know literally nothing about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem anne has been a constructive list participant for years randy
On 3/28/24 21:08, Tom Beecher wrote
There was a Women in Tech Mixer on Sunday in Charlotte as well. As I recall there was a pretty decent attendance.
During my time on the PC, we always got a lot of feedback about Sunday when the topic came up. Some members were strongly opposed to anything on Sunday and didn't even like the Hackathon there. Others wanted expansion, and more things slotted in. There certainly wasn't anything remotely close to a consensus. Sometimes people can make it in early on Sunday. Sometimes they can't. There's no one size fits all answer.
I'm not sure people realize how much crap that staff and the PC get *every meeting* about the agenda. There's always someone unhappy because this event wasn't the same, or why was it in this room over here, or OMG Wed afternoon, etc. Having seen how that sausage gets made, they don't get enough credit.
In my opinion, they found a spot that they had room for, and if people can make it with their schedules, then great. If not, hopefully a future slot can work.
Typical constraints such as scheduling and resources notwithstanding, 100% participation is not often guaranteed in most things. It's about planning for as many as can make it. With some luck, it would be the majority. Mark.
participants (21)
-
A. Pishdadi -
Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. -
Bill Woodcock -
Charles Polisher -
chris -
Eric Parsonage -
Eve Griliches -
Ilissa Miller -
Jay Hennigan -
Josh Luthman -
Mark Tinka -
Matthew Petach -
Mel Beckman -
Morris, Tina -
Paul WALL -
Randy Bush -
Ren Provo -
Ryan Hamel -
Thomas Scott -
Tom Beecher -
William Herrin