Does anyone know how to get Yahoo abuse to recognize that they're hosting a phishing site? All I can ever get back from them is boilerplate telling me they know how frustrating it is to get spam, that it did not originate from them and how to read the headers. Not half as frustrating as their ignorance. -- John
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:54 AM, John Peach <john-nanog@johnpeach.com> wrote:
Does anyone know how to get Yahoo abuse to recognize that they're hosting a phishing site? All I can ever get back from them is boilerplate telling me they know how frustrating it is to get spam, that it did not originate from them and how to read the headers. Not half as frustrating as their ignorance.
Not sure which Yahoo form you are filling out. The phishing complaint I submitted got a pretty quick response: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/security/forms/phishing.html --Jaren
Damn forms; whatever happened to abuse@ addresses? On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:39:20 -0700 Jaren Angerbauer <jarenangerbauer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:54 AM, John Peach <john-nanog@johnpeach.com> wrote:
Does anyone know how to get Yahoo abuse to recognize that they're hosting a phishing site? All I can ever get back from them is boilerplate telling me they know how frustrating it is to get spam, that it did not originate from them and how to read the headers. Not half as frustrating as their ignorance.
Not sure which Yahoo form you are filling out. The phishing complaint I submitted got a pretty quick response:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/security/forms/phishing.html
--Jaren
-- John
They were likely spammed out of existence. Half of the time our abuse people spend is wading through the spam at the abuse@ addresses =) Kind of ironic ;-) You can't really use anti-spam tech on there because people are literally forwarding you spam ;-) -Drew -----Original Message----- From: John Peach [mailto:john-nanog@johnpeach.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 9:47 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Yahoo abuse Damn forms; whatever happened to abuse@ addresses? On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:39:20 -0700 Jaren Angerbauer <jarenangerbauer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:54 AM, John Peach <john-nanog@johnpeach.com> wrote:
Does anyone know how to get Yahoo abuse to recognize that they're hosting a phishing site? All I can ever get back from them is boilerplate telling me they know how frustrating it is to get spam, that it did not originate from them and how to read the headers. Not half as frustrating as their ignorance.
Not sure which Yahoo form you are filling out. The phishing complaint I submitted got a pretty quick response:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/security/forms/phishing.html
--Jaren
-- John
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Drew Weaver <drew.weaver@thenap.com> wrote:
Half of the time our abuse people spend is wading through the spam at the abuse@ addresses =)
Oh we love that. Find some way to automate feeding all that to your spam filters and you got yourself a sizeable trap, if the abuse address is about a decade old. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists@gmail.com)
SPAM, at a guess :) On 09/02/2010, at 10:47 PM, John Peach wrote:
Damn forms; whatever happened to abuse@ addresses?
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:39:20 -0700 Jaren Angerbauer <jarenangerbauer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:54 AM, John Peach <john-nanog@johnpeach.com> wrote:
Does anyone know how to get Yahoo abuse to recognize that they're hosting a phishing site? All I can ever get back from them is boilerplate telling me they know how frustrating it is to get spam, that it did not originate from them and how to read the headers. Not half as frustrating as their ignorance.
Not sure which Yahoo form you are filling out. The phishing complaint I submitted got a pretty quick response:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/security/forms/phishing.html
--Jaren
-- John
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, John Peach wrote:
Damn forms; whatever happened to abuse@ addresses?
A few years I proposed a standard way to report abuse by email (X-headers) but nobody was interested. I suspect forms are because the abuse desks want necessary information in a structured way that doesn't have to be manually processed each time, plus trying to hunt people who can't realise what information is needed to do a proper abuse complaint. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
Having managed an abuse desk, I can honestly say that sometimes the amount of email you receive can be overwhelming. There were times I was receiving 30k-50k emails a day. It's easy for some to get lost. On that note, dealing with Yahoo! has been a constant pain. I think they've grown so large that their abuse department is lost in the shuffle. I've been having problems with them automatically greylisting all our IP blocks so that they default to the Yahoo! spam folder unless we send the bulk mail form in 8 bazillion times and being able to contact a human is nearly impossible. Consequently, I have acquired multiple POC's in the abuse/postmaster departments. Here are the addresses I use to contact people. abuse-admin@cc.yahoo-inc.com mail-abuse-bulk@cc.yahoo-inc.com mail-classic-errors@cc.yahoo-inc.com ynoc-request@yahoo-inc.com (because we peer with them, sometimes I am able to get them to get someones attention in the abuse department through the NOC though I hate using this route as they are busy enough already.) and the phone number for postmaster/email customer care is 408-349-1572 Hopefully one of these will help you out. Jessica -----Original Message----- From: Mikael Abrahamsson [mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:53 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Yahoo abuse On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, John Peach wrote:
Damn forms; whatever happened to abuse@ addresses?
A few years I proposed a standard way to report abuse by email (X-headers) but nobody was interested. I suspect forms are because the abuse desks want necessary information in a structured way that doesn't have to be manually processed each time, plus trying to hunt people who can't realise what information is needed to do a proper abuse complaint. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On Feb 9, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, John Peach wrote:
Damn forms; whatever happened to abuse@ addresses?
A few years I proposed a standard way to report abuse by email (X-headers) but nobody was interested.
There's a (draft, de facto) standard format for automated reports between providers: http://mipassoc.org/arf/ http://tools.ietf.org/wg/marf/
I suspect forms are because the abuse desks want necessary information in a structured way that doesn't have to be manually processed each time, plus trying to hunt people who can't realise what information is needed to do a proper abuse complaint.
Yep, that's certainly part of it. -- J.D. Falk <jdfalk@returnpath.net> Return Path Inc
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, J.D. Falk wrote:
A few years I proposed a standard way to report abuse by email (X-headers) but nobody was interested.
There's a (draft, de facto) standard format for automated reports between providers:
Unfortunately this seems very focused on reporting SPAM and other email related abuses. What I was looking for was a way to format a generic abuse report where the most important parts would be "type of abuse", "IP doing the abuse", "time the abuse occured" and "<free text field about what happened>" that could be used by end users. Creating a new MIME type precludes most end users from ever using it because their MUA won't support it. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
That's IODEF, if and when it picks up enough steam to get widely deployed. On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
Unfortunately this seems very focused on reporting SPAM and other email related abuses. What I was looking for was a way to format a generic abuse report where the most important parts would be "type of abuse", "IP doing the abuse", "time the abuse occured" and "<free text field about what happened>" that could be used by end users. Creating a new MIME type precludes most end users from ever using it because their MUA won't support it.
-- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists@gmail.com)
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
That's IODEF, if and when it picks up enough steam to get widely deployed.
That looks over-engineered, but at least someone can create a web service where the user can fill in fields and use drop-down menus to create the XML and the cut/paste this into an email and send. Question is how an end user should handle the reply they get, it'll be pretty much unreadable to the untrained eye. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
On Feb 9, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
That's IODEF, if and when it picks up enough steam to get widely deployed.
That looks over-engineered, but at least someone can create a web service where the user can fill in fields and use drop-down menus to create the XML and the cut/paste this into an email and send. Question is how an end user should handle the reply they get, it'll be pretty much unreadable to the untrained eye.
Some types of conversations simply don't take well to automation. -- J.D. Falk <jdfalk@returnpath.net> Return Path Inc
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:41 PM, J.D. Falk <jdfalk-lists@cybernothing.org> wrote:
Some types of conversations simply don't take well to automation.
However, automatically indexing/archiving such conversations for future reference can be useful (and can assist participants to the conversation in looking up past similar conversations), and it is easier to archive and maintain accurate auditing of structured language than to implement natural language parsers. That said, XML makes a terrible data interchange format for communications where humans are supposed to understand the message, using standard software (such as a legacy e-mail client). YAML, or similar would be a more appropriate choice, and since it can be presented as plain text, many humans can understand the output simply by looking at it. -- -J
On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:45 PM, James Hess wrote:
That said, XML makes a terrible data interchange format for communications where humans are supposed to understand the message, using standard software (such as a legacy e-mail client).
Exactly what we said when developing ARF. -- J.D. Falk <jdfalk@returnpath.net> Return Path Inc
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:54 AM, John Peach <john-nanog@johnpeach.com> wrote:
Does anyone know how to get Yahoo abuse to recognize that they're hosting a phishing site? All I can ever get back from them is boilerplate telling me they know how frustrating it is to get spam, that it did not originate from them and how to read the headers. Not half as frustrating as their ignorance. -- John
If anyone out there is good at handling abuse complaints, or at writing abuse-handling systems, and is contemplating a career change, please consider helping out; there's a whole raft of anti-abuse positions that need filling, and if we can get good people to fill them, they can help make it less frustrating to get these issues resolved. Here's a couple of key positions that are in serious need of filling, and have been open for several months now: http://careers.yahoo.com/jdescription.php?frm=jsres&oid=25937 http://careers.yahoo.com/jdescription.php?frm=jsres&oid=27908 for the whole list of anti-abuse positions that need filling... http://careers.yahoo.com/jsearchresults.php?key=abuse&jcat=&city=&submit=submit&submit=submit&submit=submit Without good people in those roles, it'll be hard for the folks on lists like this to get the level of responsiveness they're looking for. So, if you know people who would be good in these positions, send them along--the sooner the spots get filled, and people start cranking, the better we can deal with issues like this. Thanks! Matt (trying not to speak for anyone in particular...but not doing a terribly good job of it)
participants (10)
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Drew Weaver -
J.D. Falk -
James Hess -
Jaren Angerbauer -
Jess Cohen -
John Peach -
Matthew Petach -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Shane Short -
Suresh Ramasubramanian