Thanks for all the 'wonderful' input. I guess most of you feel that the attitude of UUNET is appropriate. When I read responses on NANOG I am utterly surprised by the total lack of professionalism. I have always prided myself on my education and experience and my Professional attitude towards my peers. I guess I am just being naive. I do agree that the problem is with one of UUNET's customers. I, however, think that UUNET should proactively call there customer to resolve network issues. When I purchase services from a network provider one of my conditions is that they monitor my connection to them and report to me issues that could affect my connection. In fact I feel that they should notify me of problems that persist longer than five minutes. Otherwise my business is affected in an adverse way. Therefore, I feel that they should simply have asked who the problem was with. I would have told them and sent them a traceroute (I feel that more info is better info, my opinion, take it with a grain of salt if you wish.) and they simply would have said 'thank you'. Bradley Corner Northeast Florida Multiple Listing Service, Inc. 7801 Deecreek Club Rd Ste 1 Jacksonville FL 32217 (904) 394-9494 -----Original Message----- From: Bradley Corner [mailto:bac@nefmls.com] Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 4:05 PM To: (nanog@merit.edu) Subject: UUNET service I tried to notify UUNET at their 800-900-0241 number that there was a loop in their network. They told me that if I didnt have an account with them they were not interested in any information that I may have had for them. I stated that I was just calling so that they could pass the information onto an engineer. He repeated himself saying if you do not have an account with us I will not do anything with the information. I guess they think they run the internet and us small ISPs couldnt possibly know anything... In case someone at UUNET reads this here is the traceroute. ================================================== === VisualRoute report on 12-Apr-02 3:04:18 PM === ================================================== Report for online.mmsi-usa.com [162.33.138.132] Analysis: The routing loop (65.195.230.218 / 162.33.130.4 / 162.33.128.249 / 205.197.182.201 / 162.33.138.129 / 65.195.230.217) starting in hops 12-17 is not allowing IP packets to get to their destination. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- | Hop | %Loss | IP Address | Node Name | Location | Tzone | ms | Graph | Network | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- | 0 | | 10.100.15.40 | BRADLEY.nefmls.com | ... | | | | (private use) | | 1 | | 209.12.49.1 | - | ?Jacksonville, FL 32256 | | 1 | x | Northeast Florida MLS | | 2 | | 206.222.124.121 | - | ?Herndon, VA 20165 | | 3 | x | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 3 | | 206.222.126.77 | washing2-dc-a5-0-0-10.rt.espire.net | - | | 27 | x-- | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 4 | | 206.222.127.118 | reston-va-1-pos0-0-0.rt.espire.net | - | | 37 | x--- | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 5 | | 198.32.187.97 | mae-east-level3.com | Vienna, VA, USA | | 133 | --x- | Exchange Point Blocks | | 6 | | 64.159.18.98 | ae0-54.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net | Washington, DC, USA | -05:00 | 137 | -x--- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 7 | | 64.159.0.110 | so-0-0-0.mp1.Philadelphia1.Level3.net | Philadelphia, PA, USA | -05:00 | 147 | -x------ | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 8 | | 64.159.0.150 | gige9-0.hsipaccess2.Philadelphia1.Level3.net | Philadelphia, PA, USA | -05:00 | 137 | -x---- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 9 | | 63.208.101.158 | unknown.Level3.net | - | | 147 | -x------- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 10 | | 162.33.162.25 | 401n--30th-st--phily.coretel.net | ?Annapolis, MD 21401 | | 139 | --x---- | Core Communications, Inc. | | 11 | 10 | 162.33.162.29 | baltamtrak-p.highway.coretel.net | ?Annapolis, MD 21401 | | 146 | -x------ | Core Communications, Inc. | | 12 | | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 142 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 13 | | 162.33.130.4 | i97.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 124 | --x-- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 14 | | 162.33.128.249 | tiara-2-balto.ds1.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 134 | -x---- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 15 | | 205.197.182.201 | max2.toad.net | ?Severna Park, MD 21146 | | 146 | -x-- | ToadNet, Inc. | | 16 | | 162.33.138.129 | mmsi-cpe.dsllan.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 198 | -x--- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 17 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 147 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 18 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 154 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 19 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 154 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 20 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 170 | --x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 21 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 131 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 22 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 150 | -x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 23 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 159 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 24 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 171 | -x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 25 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 169 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 26 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 188 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 27 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 169 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 28 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 191 | x----- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 29 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 179 | x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 30 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 188 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 31 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 179 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 32 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 163 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 33 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 184 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 34 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 168 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 35 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 166 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 36 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 185 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 37 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 161 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 38 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 210 | --x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 39 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 152 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 40 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 41 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 176 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 42 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 164 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 43 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 173 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 44 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 158 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 45 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 168 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 46 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 166 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 47 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 159 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 48 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 140 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 49 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 145 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 50 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 170 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 51 | 70 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 137 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 52 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 133 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 53 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 142 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 54 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 147 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 55 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 143 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 56 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 156 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 57 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 58 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 59 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 170 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 60 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 174 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 61 | 70 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 173 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 62 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 178 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 63 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 186 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 64 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 183 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | ... | | | | | | | | | | ? | | 162.33.138.132 | online.mmsi-usa.com | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | | | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- Roundtrip time to 65.195.230.218, average = 183ms, min = 152ms, max = 210ms -- 12-Apr-02 3:04:18 PM Bradley Corner Northeast Florida Multiple Listing Service, Inc. 7801 Deecreek Club Rd Ste 1 Jacksonville FL 32217 (904) 394-9494
On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 10:17:49AM -0400, Bradley Corner wrote:
Thanks for all the 'wonderful' input. I guess most of you feel that the attitude of UUNET is appropriate. When I read responses on NANOG I am utterly surprised by the total lack of professionalism. I have always prided myself on my education and experience and my Professional attitude towards my peers. I guess I am just being naive.
NANOG is not really the appropriate forum to be fielding "why can't I reach this network, can someone from UU help?" questions. It's slightly more interesting then "Where can I get a T1 in Alaska?" or "What is the number for Soandso's NOC" though, so some bored people took the time to glance at your problem, parse that horribly unreadable traceroute, and tell you that it really isn't UU's problem. It sounds like you are looking for someone in sales or support who is paid to stroke you and make you feel better, not engineers who are going to tell you the truth. That is why most of this list is not allowed to talk to customers. Deal. :)
I do agree that the problem is with one of UUNET's customers. I, however, think that UUNET should proactively call there customer to resolve network issues.
I personally believe in the benefits of looking into problem reports from anyone who will call and complain, but I also understand why UU cannot. As a small provider, this is probably quite doable. As a HUGE provider, they would have to triple their staff just to keep up with all the customers of a customer. Then they would have to have first level engineers with logic and problem solving skills, who could determine if there was actually a problem or not. And once word got out that UU would take calls from anyone, every schmuck, crackpot, and prank call would be reporting something somewhere. It's just not an easily scalable solution. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)
participants (3)
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Bradley Corner -
David R Huberman -
Richard A Steenbergen