Re: This may be stupid but..
DO NOT SEND YOUR RESUME at this point of the application process. If you do send your resume, we will assume you did not bother to carefully read this job posting, and we will not consider your application.
To begin taking the tests, please send your public SSH key to jobs@telerama.com along with your email contact information.
I like these two points. Essentially, they are ways of weeding out the large number of timewasters who just can't do the job. Who wants to open up their network infrastructure to someone who can't read and understand plain English? And how many truly experienced network engineers would not be able to generate an SSH public key if they don't already have one? But this type of technique can also be used with recruiters. It just means that you have to train them in how to identify candidates that you like. In past lives at other companies I've done this. For instance, I told the recruiters that MS certification was a bad thing and that I the only Cisco cert that was remotely interesting was CCIE. I also told them that at least half the resumes they submitted should have no certs at all. I explained the kind of UNIX experience that was good to have, i.e. using Linux or BSD at home. I also told them that I wouldn't see any candidates until I had interviewed them over the phone. This let me quickly weed out the evasive ones who were probably stretching the truth on their resumes. When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute to me. The answer that I wanted was one which showed that they had a detailed understanding of what was going on at the protocol level as the packets flowed through the network because that view of the network is needed to effectively troubleshoot problems. It did lead to one awkward situation with a 16 year-old who immediately started talking about ICMP echos with varying TTL and routers sending back ICMP echo-replies. I wanted to end the interview and hire him on the spot but it seemed unfair to give this young guy the idea that job interviews are that short. I believe that it is possible to train recruiters to ask one or two questions like this by giving them a few samples of the level of detail that you are looking for. For example I could have told a recruiter that the answer should mention TTL and echo-reply. If you shop for a recruiter who is willing to learn about your needs and properly select candidates according to *YOUR* requirements I think that recruiters can be much better than hiring directly. --Michael Dillon
Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
network is needed to effectively troubleshoot problems. It did lead to one awkward situation with a 16 year-old who immediately started talking about ICMP echos with varying TTL and routers sending back ICMP echo-replies. I wanted to end the interview and hire him on the spot but it seemed unfair to give this young guy the idea that job interviews are that short.
If that would be the criteria, wouldn´t the acceptable answer involve UDP packets and ICMP time exceeded? (not counting windows way of doing traceroute) Pete
experienced network engineers would not be able to generate an SSH public key if they don't already have one?
And for this same reason, we ask for the resume's in "Plain ASCII" If they simply export their Word doc, it gets deleted as the formatting is terrible. A good geek/sysadmin understands the importance of a well formatted ASCII file. --Mike--
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Michael.Dillon@radianz.com Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:03 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: This may be stupid but..
<snip>
When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute to me. The answer that I wanted was one which showed that they had a detailed understanding of what was going on at the protocol level as the packets flowed through the network because that view of the network is needed to effectively troubleshoot problems. It did lead to one awkward situation with a 16 year-old who immediately started talking about ICMP echos with varying TTL and routers sending back ICMP echo-replies. I wanted to end the interview and hire him on the spot but it seemed unfair to give this young guy the idea that job interviews are that short.
Especially since not all traceroutes use ICMP and the reply from the routers is typically NOT ICMP echo-reply. :-) <snip>
--Michael Dillon
-Wayne Gustavus
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 11:03:15AM +0000, Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute to me.
"Which one? ICMP, UDP or TCP traceroute (to name the usual ones)?" <silence on other side of the table> :-) Best regards, Daniel PS: this is the answer I'd expect from applicants... but this depends on what cluelevel you want/need in your NOC. :-)
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:27:46 +0100, Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de> said:
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 11:03:15AM +0000, Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute to me.
"Which one? ICMP, UDP or TCP traceroute (to name the usual ones)?"
What kind, African, or European? (Woe unto the interviewer who doesn't know. ;)
On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 02:50:47PM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
"Which one? ICMP, UDP or TCP traceroute (to name the usual ones)?"
What kind, African, or European? (Woe unto the interviewer who doesn't know. ;)
Exactly what I had in mind... :-) Unfortunately, those kind of interviews usually don't happen right next to a deep canyon. Best regards, Daniel
Michael.Dillon@radianz.com wrote:
When I interview, I start out by asking one or two key questions that help me quickly get to the truth. For instance at one company, when I has hiring NOC folks, I started by asking them to explain traceroute to me.
"Which one? ICMP, UDP or TCP traceroute (to name the usual ones)?"
<silence on other side of the table>
This would fall into the category of people being told to ask certain questions without really understanding the material or the expectation of the answer. A savvy, if ignorant, interviewer would say, "Explain the difference between each". I can imagine that explaining the difference between African and European would be a little tougher to stand up to a (good) technical reviewer -- say who read the meeting notes. Then again, anyone who really wants to work for a very savvy technical organization should either put up with a few less clueful interviewers, or ask that their clue-savvy contact sit in on the interview to translate. I'm always a little concerned with very sharp guys (technically) who talk down, even unintentionally to their superiors or customers. In a market where smart guys are out of work, the smart guys with good interpersonal skills have an advantage. Deepak Jain AiNET
participants (7)
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Daniel Roesen
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Deepak Jain
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Michael.Dillon@radianz.com
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mike harrison
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Petri Helenius
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Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
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Wayne Gustavus (nanog)