From owner-nanog@merit.edu Sat Sep 11 21:58:47 2004 From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <smb@research.att.com> To: Paul Vixie <vixie@vix.com> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: 30 Gmail Invites Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:54:16 -0400
In message <g38ybgi5nd.fsf@sa.vix.com>, Paul Vixie writes:
i still can't understand why anyone would want a gmail account, free or not.
not just "anyone on nanog". anyone, anywhere, ever. the reasons "why not" are compelling enough. but there are no counterbalancing reasons "why to", either compelling or otherwise.
I agree. The privacy implications are *really* scary. (And they're sufficiently worse for non-subscribers that I've contemplated blocking gmail-bound messages from my (personal) systems.)
--Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb
From owner-nanog@merit.edu Sat Sep 11 21:58:47 2004 From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <smb@research.att.com> To: Paul Vixie <vixie@vix.com> Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: 30 Gmail Invites Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:54:16 -0400
In message <g38ybgi5nd.fsf@sa.vix.com>, Paul Vixie writes:
i still can't understand why anyone would want a gmail account, free or not.
not just "anyone on nanog". anyone, anywhere, ever. the reasons "why not" are compelling enough. but there are no counterbalancing reasons "why to", either compelling or otherwise.
I agree. The privacy implications are *really* scary. (And they're sufficiently worse for non-subscribers that I've contemplated blocking gmail-bound messages from my (personal) systems.)
While we're on _that_ subject, what about Postini, or Brightmail, or -any- other big provider (e.g. SBC/Yahoo) that handles mail for multiple 'client' domains? Every one of those folks also reads and analyzes everybody's incoming mail, including correlating it with mail sent to other destination on their systems. AND correlating source (IP address and/or email address) with content.
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004, Robert Bonomi wrote:
I agree. The privacy implications are *really* scary. (And they're sufficiently worse for non-subscribers that I've contemplated blocking gmail-bound messages from my (personal) systems.)
While we're on _that_ subject, what about Postini, or Brightmail, or -any- other big provider (e.g. SBC/Yahoo) that handles mail for multiple 'client' domains?
Every one of those folks also reads and analyzes everybody's incoming mail, including correlating it with mail sent to other destination on their systems. AND correlating source (IP address and/or email address) with content.
The folks with the tinfoil hats are going to need extra shielding. If you believe your provider is untrustworthy, mail storage is a small part of your problems. An untrustworthy provider doesn't need to run the mail server to watch the traffic to and from it. Encryption helps a little, but that's true even if you used a provider's mail server. Encryption is difficult for most people to do well. If you put a personal server in a co-lo, remember the co-lo provider potentially has physical access to your equipment on their premises. On the other hand, if your trust your provider enough to believe it will conform to the law and contractural arrangements, you may make a rational choice to rely on the service provider to maintain a mail server instead of trying to maintain one yourself. Some people hide their money in a mattress in their house, other people keep valuables in a safe deposit box at a bank. US law may still be developing in the area of stored electronic information in comparison to physical storage. US Supreme Court Justice Marshall said in Couch (1973) "Placing [records] in a safe deposit box is different from letting them remain for many years with an accountant." In the electronic world how different is storing a file on a floppy disc in a physical safe deposit box of a bank for more than 180 days different than storing the same file online in an "electronic vault" of a Internet service provider for more than 180 days?
I'm looking for operational status information from Grenada, Jamaica, Grand Caymen, and Cuba. Anyone with clue drop me a note off-list, I will post a summary.
I have some involvement with a telecom/internet company located in Grenada. This was sent to me in the last day or so.
With reference to staff in Grenada, 4 out of 6 involved people are accounted for. The country as you are probably aware has lost over half it's buildings. Over 90% of the ones left are damaged. The electricity will not be restored to the island for an estimated 3-4 months and communications are currently only possible from cellphones in a couple of places.
The office roof collapsed destroying the office and with the rain that followed, anything remaining un damaged was then drowned. (Technician) has collected all the hardware and is attempting to dry it out, however without electricity and with the current state of emergency, we can neither test it or fly it out of the country.
Apparently, there country is under military control; no people allowed in our out. "State of Disaster" has been proclaimed. Also, it is being said that there is a general food shortage. On Sun, 12 Sep 2004, Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine wrote:
I'm looking for operational status information from Grenada, Jamaica, Grand Caymen, and Cuba. Anyone with clue drop me a note off-list, I will post a summary.
-- Alex Rubenstein, AR97, K2AHR, alex@nac.net, latency, Al Reuben -- -- Net Access Corporation, 800-NET-ME-36, http://www.nac.net --
participants (4)
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Alex Rubenstein -
Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine -
Robert Bonomi -
Sean Donelan