On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Brad Knowles wrote: [Deleted]
What I really think we need here are some "truth-in-advertising" laws which are applied to oversubscription rates. That'd solve the problem really quick.
How about we regulat the Internet like the Electric Utility and charge per byte transferred? :) That would shut down Peer To Peer traffic rather quickly, and it would ensure that everyone pays a fair amount for what they use. I'm only half serious here.. However, I do agree that truth in advertising is a good thing. On a different tact, where I -THINK- the market will eventually end up is w/ different classes of BroadBand service, whereby QOS and priority will be given to those that wish to pay for it. The $14.95 services will be a best-effort, and the $59.95 services will have priority. -- Vice President of N2Net, a New Age Consulting Service, Inc. Company http://www.n2net.net Where everything clicks into place! KP-216-121-ST
On 3/31/2005 9:25 AM, Greg Boehnlein wrote:
On a different tact, where I -THINK- the market will eventually end up is w/ different classes of BroadBand service, whereby QOS and priority will be given to those that wish to pay for it. The $14.95 services will be a best-effort, and the $59.95 services will have priority.
We've there already. When I had my home-office DSL package from XO it was much more expensive than consumer DSL from pacbell, for example, but gave me the ability to run local servers, non-blocking network ranges, etc. Meanwhille, cable contracts are pretty much written such that the service is only supposed to be used for ~web browsing and other basic tasks, and if you want reliability or better bandwidth then call the business service number. I don't see this much in the local provider market though. -- Eric A. Hall http://www.ehsco.com/ Internet Core Protocols http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/coreprot/
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:25:56 -0500 (EST), Greg Boehnlein <damin@nacs.net> wrote:
How about we regulat the Internet like the Electric Utility and charge per byte transferred? :)
You know, that's already happening Korea Telecom recently decided to scrap its flat rate high speed [1] broadband offering and move to a traffic based charging plan - must be because most korean broadband gets used for online gaming, which is as high bandwidth use an app as you can get ... and they're hit by the same situation, which does start to bite when a few users start maxing out their pipes, and really begins to hurt when "few" suddenly becomes "most" srs [1] (and I mean really high speed, compared to what gets sold as DSL stateside, and way, way over the $75 a month, 3 gig transfer capped 512K dsl line I use in India)
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
Korea Telecom recently decided to scrap its flat rate high speed [1] broadband offering and move to a traffic based charging plan - must be because most korean broadband gets used for online gaming, which is as high bandwidth use an app as you can get ... and they're hit by the same situation, which does start to bite when a few users start maxing out their pipes, and really begins to hurt when "few" suddenly becomes "most"
My guess would be that PtP is a much bigger bandwidth hog than gaming, especially for the people who have high upstream capacity (10meg+). Seeing IX traffic exchange between local 10meg full duplex providers and ADSL providers is kind of fun, with traffic ratios of 1:5 or worse not being uncommon. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
Korea Telecom recently decided to scrap its flat rate high speed [1] broadband offering and move to a traffic based charging plan - must be because most korean broadband gets used for online gaming, which is as high bandwidth use an app as you can get ... and they're hit by the same situation, which does start to bite when a few users start maxing out their pipes, and really begins to hurt when "few" suddenly becomes "most" My guess would be that PtP is a much bigger bandwidth hog than gaming, especially for the people who have high upstream capacity (10meg+).
the seven biggest isps in japan recently cooperated on a really good paper measuring a lot about broadband use in japan. it is in the most recent ccr, v35n1 jan 05. sorry, siteseer seems not to have it yet. randy
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Randy Bush wrote:
Korea Telecom recently decided to scrap its flat rate high speed [1] broadband offering and move to a traffic based charging plan - must be because most korean broadband gets used for online gaming, which is as high bandwidth use an app as you can get ... and they're hit by the same situation, which does start to bite when a few users start maxing out their pipes, and really begins to hurt when "few" suddenly becomes "most" My guess would be that PtP is a much bigger bandwidth hog than gaming, especially for the people who have high upstream capacity (10meg+).
the seven biggest isps in japan recently cooperated on a really good paper measuring a lot about broadband use in japan. it is in the most recent ccr, v35n1 jan 05. sorry, siteseer seems not to have it yet.
randy
that would be: "The impact of residential broadband traffic on Japanese ISP backbones" Authors Kensuke Fukuda NTT/WIDE Kenjiro Cho IIJ/WIDE Hiroshi Esaki U. Tokyo/WIDE http://portal.acm.org/ft_gateway.cfm?id=1052820&type=pdf if the ACM link doesn't work, try: http://www.iijlab.net/~kjc/papers/srccs-rbb-traffic-2up.pdf
the seven biggest isps in japan recently cooperated on a really good paper measuring a lot about broadband use in japan. it is in the most recent ccr, v35n1 jan 05. sorry, siteseer seems not to have it yet. http://www.iepg.org/march2005/kjc-iepg200503.pdf has some data, jaap
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
Korea Telecom recently decided to scrap its flat rate high speed [1] broadband offering and move to a traffic based charging plan - must be because most korean broadband gets used for online gaming, which is as high bandwidth use an app as you can get ... and they're hit by the same situation, which does start to bite when a few users start maxing out their pipes, and really begins to hurt when "few" suddenly becomes "most"
Actually, gaming usually isn't a high bandwidth app, it's merely sensitive to latency. The flows are longer, and I'd imagine with Korea's gaming addiction, highly numerous, but really only large when taken in volume. Now, downloading large patches or entire games.. that's another story, of course. This is one of the problems things like BitTorrent is designed to tackle. A time-lapse flow matrix demonstrating the effects of BitTorrent on egress traffic would be an interesting project. - billn
Tiered service is fine, but, charge per octet transferred will not work for me until I can have control over which octets are transferred. As long as I can't block spammers and abusers from adding to my bill without blocking services I want (email, web usage, the ability to host some small websites, etc.), and as long as search engines and such can generate traffic on my network without me having any recourse to bill them for it to recoup my costs, I think metered service is not a great idea, at least at the small-pipe (<10mbps) end of the scale. Owen --On Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:25 AM -0500 Greg Boehnlein <damin@nacs.net> wrote:
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Brad Knowles wrote:
[Deleted]
What I really think we need here are some "truth-in-advertising" laws which are applied to oversubscription rates. That'd solve the problem really quick.
How about we regulat the Internet like the Electric Utility and charge per byte transferred? :)
That would shut down Peer To Peer traffic rather quickly, and it would ensure that everyone pays a fair amount for what they use.
I'm only half serious here.. However, I do agree that truth in advertising is a good thing.
On a different tact, where I -THINK- the market will eventually end up is w/ different classes of BroadBand service, whereby QOS and priority will be given to those that wish to pay for it. The $14.95 services will be a best-effort, and the $59.95 services will have priority.
-- Vice President of N2Net, a New Age Consulting Service, Inc. Company http://www.n2net.net Where everything clicks into place! KP-216-121-ST
-- If it wasn't crypto-signed, it probably didn't come from me.
participants (9)
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Bill Nash -
Eric A. Hall -
Greg Boehnlein -
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Lucy E. Lynch -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Owen DeLong -
Randy Bush -
Suresh Ramasubramanian