Re: Operational Issues with 69.0.0.0/8...
Hello Everyone, I appreciate all of the discussion regarding this issue. Nothing has changed. This is getting worse. We spoke to one network on Friday that said they had cleared the problem, yet our users still can't go there. For those of you that feel this is not anyone's problem, and that the internet should just "work it out"; I hereby challenge one of you to trade CIDRs with us. You take this 69.1.192.0/19 ARIN assigned us and you go spend your valuable time, resources, and money working out what seems to be "nobody's problem". Also, if you would like to come over and answer the support calls and explain to our customers why the competitor's networks can reach these sites, but ours can't. Hey - after all, it's just CIDR - it's all the same, right? Some of you have accused others of being too lazy to call the networks that don't work - I assure all of you we have called the ones we know of - over and over. They still don't work. Some of you have suggested that all we need to do is talk to people. We have been calling and talking for a months (almost three to be exact), and the list of inaccessible sites continues to grow. We have called and talked until we are blue in the face. What all of you don't know, is that for the first month we had this CIDR, we could not register hosts on it at NetSol/Verisign, because their core registry did not recognize it. We have been getting F***ed by this CIDR since day one. We have only been successful with two networks in getting filters removed. How many more are out there? I think we can all agree that whoever's responsibility it is, the current system is broken. You can't actually count on people to read this list. Maybe if IANA and ARIN and the other organizations that are supposed to work together to make all this stuff work weren't so busy trying to pass the buck, someone might have time to figure something out... Somebody out there has to have a spare /19 lying around :-) You know - the good old IP numbers like the ones I used to get - they actually worked ;-) What we do know is that the number ARIN took from us sure worked for them. Do you think they would be calling us if their bank suddenly told them that even though they had delivered IP Addresses to us, they could not receive our 3,000.00 dollars because it originated from a bank that has a previously restricted routing code? Todd
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Todd A. Blank wrote:
I hereby challenge one of you to trade CIDRs with us. You take this 69.1.192.0/19 ARIN assigned us and you go spend your valuable time, resources, and money working out what seems to be "nobody's problem".
Was this an initial allocation into which you're renumbering out of provider space, or a trade-in (you gave some block back to ARIN and got this one)? Based on the newness of your ASN and sho ip bg regex _26483, I'm guessing it's your first allocation. Assuming you did this because you were about out of the space allocated to you by your provider(s), have you looked into getting some more space from your providers to keep things running while the issues with 69.0.0.0/8 filters are worked out? Even if they've already given you as much space as their policies allow, I suspect you could talk them into bending the rules in a case like this. Creating more networks to renumber sucks, but it beats losing customers, and you have plenty of time...probably even more than the ARIN published guidelines for renumbering due to the problems you've encountered...and what can ARIN do if you go beyond their suggested deadline anyway? I don't have any spare CIDRs to trade you. In fact, I'll be doing the ARIN dance again soon to get more space since we're running out. I'm really not looking forward to being in the same boat as you, but at least I know now to expect trouble, especially if we get a chunk of the same /8 you did. In your first message, you posted a couple of web sites that were not reachable from your IP space. It'd be more useful (to people in your shoes) and more embarrassing (to the offending networks) if you could post the names of the networks/backbones you've identified thus far that are still filtering 69.0.0.0/8. Maybe someone reading this list will know someone who knows someone at those networks and be able to get something done. If nothing else, it gives the next guy who gets 69.0.0.0/8 space a starting point of networks to check connectivity to and networks to contact if things don't work for them. Then those networks will have multiple people pestering them to fix their filters even if not everyone affected has customers that actually care about reaching those nets.
Also, if you would like to come over and answer the support calls and explain to our customers why the competitor's networks can reach these sites, but ours can't. Hey - after all, it's just CIDR - it's all the same, right?
Have you given customers in the affected space the option of renumbering back into your previous IP space?
What all of you don't know, is that for the first month we had this CIDR, we could not register hosts on it at NetSol/Verisign, because their core registry did not recognize it. We have been getting F***ed
That should have set off some alarm bells and prompted a post to nanog a month ago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis *jlewis@lewis.org*| I route System Administrator | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
You can add dvgarage to that list of domains not configured properly for 69.x.x.x as well. They use GBLX, who is properly configured but once it hits their internal network the problems start. On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 jlewis@lewis.org wrote:
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Todd A. Blank wrote:
I hereby challenge one of you to trade CIDRs with us. You take this 69.1.192.0/19 ARIN assigned us and you go spend your valuable time, resources, and money working out what seems to be "nobody's problem".
Was this an initial allocation into which you're renumbering out of provider space, or a trade-in (you gave some block back to ARIN and got this one)? Based on the newness of your ASN and sho ip bg regex _26483, I'm guessing it's your first allocation. Assuming you did this because you were about out of the space allocated to you by your provider(s), have you looked into getting some more space from your providers to keep things running while the issues with 69.0.0.0/8 filters are worked out? Even if they've already given you as much space as their policies allow, I suspect you could talk them into bending the rules in a case like this. Creating more networks to renumber sucks, but it beats losing customers, and you have plenty of time...probably even more than the ARIN published guidelines for renumbering due to the problems you've encountered...and what can ARIN do if you go beyond their suggested deadline anyway?
I don't have any spare CIDRs to trade you. In fact, I'll be doing the ARIN dance again soon to get more space since we're running out. I'm really not looking forward to being in the same boat as you, but at least I know now to expect trouble, especially if we get a chunk of the same /8 you did.
In your first message, you posted a couple of web sites that were not reachable from your IP space. It'd be more useful (to people in your shoes) and more embarrassing (to the offending networks) if you could post the names of the networks/backbones you've identified thus far that are still filtering 69.0.0.0/8.
Maybe someone reading this list will know someone who knows someone at those networks and be able to get something done. If nothing else, it gives the next guy who gets 69.0.0.0/8 space a starting point of networks to check connectivity to and networks to contact if things don't work for them. Then those networks will have multiple people pestering them to fix their filters even if not everyone affected has customers that actually care about reaching those nets.
Also, if you would like to come over and answer the support calls and explain to our customers why the competitor's networks can reach these sites, but ours can't. Hey - after all, it's just CIDR - it's all the same, right?
Have you given customers in the affected space the option of renumbering back into your previous IP space?
What all of you don't know, is that for the first month we had this CIDR, we could not register hosts on it at NetSol/Verisign, because their core registry did not recognize it. We have been getting F***ed
That should have set off some alarm bells and prompted a post to nanog a month ago.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis *jlewis@lewis.org*| I route System Administrator | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
participants (3)
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jlewis＠lewis.org -
Scott Granados -
Todd A. Blank