What Platform for a small ISP (was: Cisco 7600 (7609) as a core BGP router)
There has been a lot of good feedback regarding the deficiencies of the 7600 platform... So, the new question is: what platforms should a small, start-up ISP consider when looking to provide Ethernet services to their customers? - Scalability - 100M, 1G, 10G access speeds (backplane limitations, number of ports per chassis, etc.) - MPLS Capabilities - QoS Features - Ease of configuration and support, etc. (finding NOC talent, scripting tools, etc.) - Software/Hardware "stability" and "longevity" (we don't want something that is brand-new and therefore "buggy" nor do we want something that is going EOL next year) - Bang for the buck (both acquisition and on-going maintenance and support) I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things...are there any good presentations from previous NANOG meetings that one should review? Thanks in advance, Ben
What do you consider a "small start-up ISP"? What kind of upstream connectivity are you considering (or at least falls under the category of small isp) bandwidht, bgp etc? On 7/22/09 9:39 AM, "R. Benjamin Kessler" <rbk@mnsginc.com> wrote:
There has been a lot of good feedback regarding the deficiencies of the 7600 platform...
So, the new question is: what platforms should a small, start-up ISP consider when looking to provide Ethernet services to their customers?
- Scalability - 100M, 1G, 10G access speeds (backplane limitations, number of ports per chassis, etc.) - MPLS Capabilities - QoS Features - Ease of configuration and support, etc. (finding NOC talent, scripting tools, etc.) - Software/Hardware "stability" and "longevity" (we don't want something that is brand-new and therefore "buggy" nor do we want something that is going EOL next year) - Bang for the buck (both acquisition and on-going maintenance and support)
I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things...are there any good presentations from previous NANOG meetings that one should review?
Thanks in advance,
Ben
-- Jim Wininger Indiana Fiber Network Desk - 317-777-7114 Cell - 317-432-7609 Office - 317-280-4636 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any attachment) is intended for the exclusive use of the named recipient and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named recipient (or person authorized to deliver it to the named recipient). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized person. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system including any attachment without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by return e-mail.
Juniper M10i versus Cisco ASR 1000 On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Jim Wininger <jwininger@indianafiber.net>wrote:
What do you consider a "small start-up ISP"? What kind of upstream connectivity are you considering (or at least falls under the category of small isp) bandwidht, bgp etc?
On 7/22/09 9:39 AM, "R. Benjamin Kessler" <rbk@mnsginc.com> wrote:
There has been a lot of good feedback regarding the deficiencies of the 7600 platform...
So, the new question is: what platforms should a small, start-up ISP consider when looking to provide Ethernet services to their customers?
- Scalability - 100M, 1G, 10G access speeds (backplane limitations, number of ports per chassis, etc.) - MPLS Capabilities - QoS Features - Ease of configuration and support, etc. (finding NOC talent, scripting tools, etc.) - Software/Hardware "stability" and "longevity" (we don't want something that is brand-new and therefore "buggy" nor do we want something that is going EOL next year) - Bang for the buck (both acquisition and on-going maintenance and support)
I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things...are there any good presentations from previous NANOG meetings that one should review?
Thanks in advance,
Ben
-- Jim Wininger Indiana Fiber Network Desk - 317-777-7114 Cell - 317-432-7609 Office - 317-280-4636
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any attachment) is intended for the exclusive use of the named recipient and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named recipient (or person authorized to deliver it to the named recipient). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized person. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system including any attachment without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by return e-mail.
On 7/22/09 9:48 AM, Jim Wininger <jwininger@indianafiber.net> wrote:
What do you consider a "small start-up ISP"? What kind of upstream connectivity are you considering (or at least falls under the category of small isp) bandwidht, bgp etc?
two or three upstreams - OC-12 to 1G to each (BGP full tables) three "POPs" meshed together
On 7/22/09 9:39 AM, "R. Benjamin Kessler" <rbk@mnsginc.com> wrote:
There has been a lot of good feedback regarding the deficiencies of the 7600 platform...
So, the new question is: what platforms should a small, start-up ISP consider when looking to provide Ethernet services to their customers?
- Scalability - 100M, 1G, 10G access speeds (backplane limitations, number of ports per chassis, etc.) - MPLS Capabilities - QoS Features - Ease of configuration and support, etc. (finding NOC talent, scripting tools, etc.) - Software/Hardware "stability" and "longevity" (we don't want something that is brand-new and therefore "buggy" nor do we want something that is going EOL next year) - Bang for the buck (both acquisition and on-going maintenance and support)
I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things...are there any good presentations from previous NANOG meetings that one should review?
Thanks in advance,
Ben
Why are you a "small start-up" and needing 600M-1G of pipe, and from 3x carriers? You can't use 150-200M via GigE ports and scale as needed (assuming you aren't bound to a SONET loop)? We started our IP backbone in 2005 with 3x 300M connections on 6509/maxed-Sup2s with 85% BGP tables and 6516-GBIC blades. All of our drops were GBE or 10/100, no SONET, no fancy stuff. 3x nodes meshed. Redundancy was our only mandatory requirement. Everything worked well, until we started getting more sophisticated. This setup now could run $5-6k/node if you shop around. Since then, prices have dropped on more powerful stuff and persistent EOL progression, so if you can pull off funds for Sup720-3BXL engines, you've got options for 10G, IP6, MPLS, and full tables from day one, although 10G ports are not cheap (for a shoestring one, at least). I would consider Sup720-3Bs as a minimum for that platform, considering EOL and features. -D On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:57 AM, R. Benjamin Kessler<rbk@mnsginc.com> wrote:
On 7/22/09 9:48 AM, Jim Wininger <jwininger@indianafiber.net> wrote:
What do you consider a "small start-up ISP"? What kind of upstream connectivity are you considering (or at least falls under the category of small isp) bandwidht, bgp etc?
two or three upstreams - OC-12 to 1G to each (BGP full tables) three "POPs" meshed together
On 7/22/09 9:39 AM, "R. Benjamin Kessler" <rbk@mnsginc.com> wrote:
There has been a lot of good feedback regarding the deficiencies of the 7600 platform...
So, the new question is: what platforms should a small, start-up ISP consider when looking to provide Ethernet services to their customers?
- Scalability - 100M, 1G, 10G access speeds (backplane limitations, number of ports per chassis, etc.) - MPLS Capabilities - QoS Features - Ease of configuration and support, etc. (finding NOC talent, scripting tools, etc.) - Software/Hardware "stability" and "longevity" (we don't want something that is brand-new and therefore "buggy" nor do we want something that is going EOL next year) - Bang for the buck (both acquisition and on-going maintenance and support)
I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things...are there any good presentations from previous NANOG meetings that one should review?
Thanks in advance,
Ben
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 09:39:25AM -0400, R. Benjamin Kessler wrote:
There has been a lot of good feedback regarding the deficiencies of the 7600 platform...
So, the new question is: what platforms should a small, start-up ISP consider when looking to provide Ethernet services to their customers?
- Scalability - 100M, 1G, 10G access speeds (backplane limitations, number of ports per chassis, etc.) - MPLS Capabilities - QoS Features - Ease of configuration and support, etc. (finding NOC talent, scripting tools, etc.) - Software/Hardware "stability" and "longevity" (we don't want something that is brand-new and therefore "buggy" nor do we want something that is going EOL next year) - Bang for the buck (both acquisition and on-going maintenance and support)
People use the 6500/7600 platform because it is dirt cheap, it mostly works especially if you aren't doing anything too interesting or complex with it (and if you have to ask, you probably aren't), and there is an unlimited supply of "talent" (if you can call it that) who understands basic IOS. If you're really a small ISP looking for a safe bet, this is a fine choice. It's also available in quantity and for cheap on the used market, which is probably where you want to go as a small ISP. If on the other hand you're looking for a "good" platform and money is no object, the Juniper MX is the unquestioned leader in this space. Unfortunately it costs quite a bit more than a 6500/7600 (around 4x-10x more depending on how good a deal you get on one, and how bad a deal you get on the other), but you do get what you pay for. :) The other players in this space are the Foundry MLX/XMR and Force10. Each has their advantages and disadvantages compared to Cisco, and may be more appropriate for some people under some circumstances, but at the end of the day they are both terribly flawed products too just in different ways. Cisco still comes out with the significant price advantage though, especially on the used market, which means for "most" people who have to ask this type of question the 6500/7600 is the way to go. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
participants (5)
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David Storandt -
Jim Wininger -
Manu Chao -
R. Benjamin Kessler -
Richard A Steenbergen