Kind of summarizes why we are still heavy on the "best effort" side of the equation. -M Regards, -- Martin Hannigan (c) 617-388-2663 VeriSign, Inc. (w) 703-948-7018 http://www.verisign.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu <owner-nanog@merit.edu> To: Paul Vixie <vixie@vix.com> CC: nanog@merit.edu <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Mon Jul 05 21:32:14 2004 Subject: Re: concern over public peering points [WAS: Peering point speed publicly available?] On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 01:43:14AM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote:

vgill@vijaygill.com (vijay gill) writes:

...

Throwing ethernet cables over the ceiling does not scale.

i think it's important to distinguish between "things aol and uunet don't think are good for aol and uunet" and "things that aren't good for

anybody."

what i found through my PAIX experience is that the second tier is really quite deep and broad, and that the first tier doesn't ignore them like

their

spokesmodels claim they do.

Paul, I think you took a left at the pass and went down the wrong road here. I am not saying ethernet doesn't scale or even vni/pni doesn't scale, but the mentality embodied in the approach "throw it over the wall" doesn't bode well if you are to scale.

not agree is free to behave that way. but it's not useful to try to dissuade cooperating adults from peering any way they want to.

i've been told that if i ran a tier-1 i would lose my love for the vni/pni approach, which i think scales quite nicely even when it involves an ethernet cable through the occasional ceiling. perhaps i'll eat these words when and if that promotion comes through. meanwhile, disintermediation is still my favorite word in the internet dictionary. i like it when one's competitors

As we have seen before in previous lives, and I'm pretty sure stephen stuart will step in, normalizing "throw the ethernet over the wall" school of design just leads to an incredible amount of pain when trying to operate, run and actually document what you've got. I thought it was illustrative to take a look at some of the other messages in this thread. People rushing in to argue the scale comment when the actual heart of the matter was something else entirely, which apparently only Tony managed to get. In any case, I am going to pull a randy here and strongly encourage my competitors to deploy this "ethernet over ceiling tile" engineering methodology. /vijay