Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality
Steve, My point is that for lots and lots of people their uplink is not "so low". Even when I look at users with 25/25 and 50/50, many of the have been at those rates for >3 years we don't see changes in traffic patterns nor satisfaction as compared to users at similar download rates but lower uplink rates as long as we don't go below ~5 mbps on the uplink. On Feb 28, 2015 10:46 AM, "Steve Clark" <sclark@netwolves.com> wrote:
On 02/27/2015 04:11 PM, Scott Helms wrote:
Daniel,
"50MB/s might be tough to fill, but even at home I can get good use out of the odd 25MB/s upstream burst for a few minutes."
Which would you choose, 50/50 or 75/25? My point is not that upstream speed isn't valuable, but merely that demand for it isn't symmetrical and unless the market changes won't be in the near term. Downstream demand is growing, in most markets I can see, much faster than upstream demand.
Scott,
Who can foresee what APPs might come about if uplinks speeds weren't so low. I liken it to whoever said no one will ever need more than 640KB of memory.
Regards, Steve
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum(678) 507-5000 --------------------------------http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
-- Stephen Clark *NetWolves Managed Services, LLC.* Director of Technology Phone: 813-579-3200 Fax: 813-882-0209 Email: steve.clark@netwolves.com http://www.netwolves.com
On 2/28/2015 10:28 AM, Scott Helms wrote:
Steve,
My point is that for lots and lots of people their uplink is not "so low". Even when I look at users with 25/25 and 50/50, many of the have been at those rates for >3 years we don't see changes in traffic patterns nor satisfaction as compared to users at similar download rates but lower uplink rates as long as we don't go below ~5 mbps on the uplink. On Feb 28, 2015 10:46 AM, "Steve Clark" <sclark@netwolves.com> wrote:
Of course you don't, and as long as we don't work towards fixing the problem, you will continue to see this. It's limitation of the masses. Developers generally base things on what the most number of users/customers can support. Consider the gaming industry. There are a LOT of PC games that now get substandard resolution textures because the textures were developed with a console in mind and they didn't want to spend extra having a PC specialized texture pack (for those few who have good graphics cards). There are more PC games for Windows than other operating systems. We are now starting to see better support for OSX and Linux; though it's still rather low. Consider skype group video calls. The download requirements change but the upload does not. This leads me to believe they are using an intermediate server. That is VERY un-skype-like in my opinion, but then they have to deal with what will work for a majority of the people. If a majority of the people had 50meg/50meg, skype development would probably support p2p for group video with HD support. In fact, it could be more versatile as each connection could negotiate what it feels is appropriate based on the limits of the sender and the recipient. This would be a good example of symmetric usage. However, with the masses still at 5meg or lower on upload, it would be silly to bother with. Just throw it to a rebroadcasting server and use the bandwidth there. It's not just about what's available, though. it's also about the users themselves. Usage of the average 80 year old is different than the average 40 year old. The current teenager definitely has different usage. In many ways, the bandwidth problem isn't much different than the NAT problems. Running servers and using bandwidth to compensate for edge network weaknesses is not ideal. When a majority do not suffer the problem, those who are in the minority will be told to complain to their ISP or "unsupported". Jack
Jack Bates wrote:
On 2/28/2015 10:28 AM, Scott Helms wrote:
Steve,
My point is that for lots and lots of people their uplink is not "so low". Even when I look at users with 25/25 and 50/50, many of the have been at those rates for >3 years we don't see changes in traffic patterns nor satisfaction as compared to users at similar download rates but lower uplink rates as long as we don't go below ~5 mbps on the uplink. On Feb 28, 2015 10:46 AM, "Steve Clark" <sclark@netwolves.com> wrote:
It's not just about what's available, though. it's also about the users themselves. Usage of the average 80 year old is different than the average 40 year old. The current teenager definitely has different usage.
That's a good point. (IMHO) email became a big market driver when students started graduating college and lost their email access. Today, students go to college, experience dorm rooms with gigE jacks in their dorm rooms connected back to high speed backbone nets. And they've been doing that for a decade. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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Scott Helms