Re: CWDM equipment (current favorites) (fwd)
A few years ago, NANOG had a discussion regarding various CWDM vendors. Repeatedly MRV was brought up as a good option for metro-area LAN type applications. There's been some discussions more recently, such as (coauthored by yours
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Deepak Jain wrote: truly): http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0606/pdf/lightning-talks/4-pilosov.pdf http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0610/presenter-pdfs/pilosov.pdf
Since then, I have actually touched some of the MRV product line personally and found it (and their customer support)... less than ideal. (not comparing to anyone else, and no one is really ideal).
The bigger problem was that the devices seem to be less than intuitive, but rock solid once they are working. (which is what everyone praised them for). Passive CWDM gear is pretty much all created equal as far as intuitiveness in how to connect it (assuming gear is non-broken). You have muxes, you have SFPs/GBICs, and you plug GBIC output into the mux input. :)
As far as the SFP/GBIC quality, I think MRV is very good. At one point, (maybe even still) Cisco OEM'd MRV gbics under their brand (and with attendant 1000% markup). You can also look at cubo and infineon optics, good quality at reasonable price. Be wary about chiwanese vendors - quality is questionable: high DOA rate, output light level and input sensitivity vary from one module to another. Pricewise, you might find that cubo isn't *that* much more expensive than chiwanese gear. Also, there's market (like, again, from yours truly) of the new-in-box MRV gear, which may also be an option.
We need to place a new order for some new fiber builds and were considering some other vendors. Especially in the nx2.5G and nx10G (are CWDM x-cievers even available in 10G yet?) range. Anyone have any new favorites? 2.5G are only slightly more expensive than 1G - if you have OC48 gear that is SFP-capable, by all means, use that.
10G CWDM is *rumoured* to exist, but I don't think there are any production ones yet. Feel free to correct me. 10G is all DWDM, and so far very pricy.
We need to place a new order for some new fiber builds and were considering some other vendors. Especially in the nx2.5G and nx10G (are CWDM x-cievers even available in 10G yet?) range. Anyone have any new favorites? 2.5G are only slightly more expensive than 1G - if you have OC48 gear that is SFP-capable, by all means, use that.
10G CWDM is *rumoured* to exist, but I don't think there are any production ones yet. Feel free to correct me. 10G is all DWDM, and so far very pricy.
I think this is the rub (regarding multirate optics). What I'd love to be able to do is take a multirate optic and shove it into some 1U type switch or router that takes several gigabits of a IP or Ethernet frames and load balances them PPP or CEF style across a few 2.5/2.7G lambdas. So say 10 gigabits of traffic over 4 lambdas. I don't need to replicate GE signaling or SONET signaling... just move the bits. I know this is very easy (trivial even) at 1G signaling rates, I never understood [other than for markup purposes] why the vendors don't let those uplink ports be 2.5G capable. (I'm already aware of the cards that two 2G -> 1 multirate lambda. I would like a box that does better than that as effective throughput on the lambda -- it reduces complexity on our end and media conversion needs). Any suggestions?? Thanks. Deepak
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Deepak Jain wrote:
We need to place a new order for some new fiber builds and were considering some other vendors. Especially in the nx2.5G and nx10G (are CWDM x-cievers even available in 10G yet?) range. Anyone have any new favorites? 2.5G are only slightly more expensive than 1G - if you have OC48 gear that is SFP-capable, by all means, use that.
10G CWDM is *rumoured* to exist, but I don't think there are any production ones yet. Feel free to correct me. 10G is all DWDM, and so far very pricy.
I think this is the rub (regarding multirate optics). What I'd love to be able to do is take a multirate optic and shove it into some 1U type switch or router that takes several gigabits of a IP or Ethernet frames and load balances them PPP or CEF style across a few 2.5/2.7G lambdas. So say 10 gigabits of traffic over 4 lambdas. I don't need to replicate Well, that's how LX4 actually works internally - but you can't plug in your own optics for those 4 cwdm channels :(
Why not just do 10G natively? (LX4 or DWDM or whatever?)
GE signaling or SONET signaling... just move the bits. I know this is very easy (trivial even) at 1G signaling rates, I never understood [other than for markup purposes] why the vendors don't let those uplink ports be 2.5G capable. You *have* to deal with signaling somehow, because of regeneration of the signal, so you have to have your own kind of signaling (whether sonet or ethernet or ...) on these lambdas.
-alex
alex@pilosoft.com wrote:
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Deepak Jain wrote:
We need to place a new order for some new fiber builds and were considering some other vendors. Especially in the nx2.5G and nx10G (are CWDM x-cievers even available in 10G yet?) range. Anyone have any new favorites? 2.5G are only slightly more expensive than 1G - if you have OC48 gear that is SFP-capable, by all means, use that.
10G CWDM is *rumoured* to exist, but I don't think there are any production ones yet. Feel free to correct me. 10G is all DWDM, and so far very pricy. I think this is the rub (regarding multirate optics). What I'd love to be able to do is take a multirate optic and shove it into some 1U type switch or router that takes several gigabits of a IP or Ethernet frames and load balances them PPP or CEF style across a few 2.5/2.7G lambdas. So say 10 gigabits of traffic over 4 lambdas. I don't need to replicate Well, that's how LX4 actually works internally - but you can't plug in your own optics for those 4 cwdm channels :(
Why not just do 10G natively? (LX4 or DWDM or whatever?)
10G is fine, but a coarse step price-wise. (boxes that are 1U that uplink 10G often have >10G of input traffic possible). I like being able to plug optics in as we need more upink. If its not feasible, well then. :)
GE signaling or SONET signaling... just move the bits. I know this is very easy (trivial even) at 1G signaling rates, I never understood [other than for markup purposes] why the vendors don't let those uplink ports be 2.5G capable. You *have* to deal with signaling somehow, because of regeneration of the signal, so you have to have your own kind of signaling (whether sonet or ethernet or ...) on these lambdas.
We aren't dealing with regeneration in the scenario I'm talking about... but since its possible in LX4 and other things... it should be possible in crafted solution. Since there doesn't seem to be a solution off the shelf to say make a 3750 uplink at 2.5G... I guess we'll just be old fashioned. :) Thanks, Deepak
On 2006-11-02-19:16:36, Deepak Jain <deepak@ai.net> wrote:
10G is fine, but a coarse step price-wise. (boxes that are 1U that uplink 10G often have >10G of input traffic possible). I like being able to plug optics in as we need more upink. If its not feasible, well then. :)
As there's no specification for 2.5 gigabit ethernet (that I'm aware of), and SONET gear with pluggable optics is likely out of your league, I'm afraid that's a decision you'll have to make. :-) There are plenty affordable[1] options available 1U for switches with 10GE uplink ports. I've had good luck with the Extreme Summit x450. If you're a bit more daring, Allied Telesyn recently announced a switch with a similar port density, though lacking in the useful "bunch of SFPs rather than 10/100/1000 ports" configuration. More and more, I'm finding it difficult to justify deploying n x GE port-channels across dark fiber, when 10GE is a lot easier to scale and troubleshoot... -a (the other *WDM lightning talk author) [1] clarified as sub-$10k per unit, sometimes even in the ballpark of $5k with the correct discounts applied
As there's no specification for 2.5 gigabit ethernet (that I'm aware of), and SONET gear with pluggable optics is likely out of your league, I'm afraid that's a decision you'll have to make. :-)
There are plenty affordable[1] options available 1U for switches with 10GE uplink ports. I've had good luck with the Extreme Summit x450. If you're a bit more daring, Allied Telesyn recently announced a switch with a similar port density, though lacking in the useful "bunch of SFPs rather than 10/100/1000 ports" configuration.
More and more, I'm finding it difficult to justify deploying n x GE port-channels across dark fiber, when 10GE is a lot easier to scale and troubleshoot...
Since we are clarifying... Yes, 10G is a nice option when you can use reasonably priced optics (<80km). CWDM (nx2.5 or nx1G) works happily up to 30+db of loss and reduces complexity if you can avoid all the associated pieces of DWDM you may need to address conditions in the long reach end of the range. Deepak
participants (3)
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Adam Rothschild -
alex＠pilosoft.com -
Deepak Jain