On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Ali Jackson wrote:
Does any one else out there think smart hands at Equinix is a rip off? I can send a package over night to the IBX for less than what it costs to move it from the mailroom to my cage. Just curious....
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
<> Nathan Stratton nathan at robotics.net http://www.robotics.net
Yes. Equinix security, while it looks very tough, is very easy to social engineer. Too much fluff, need more stuff. On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Nathan Stratton wrote:
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Ali Jackson wrote:
Does any one else out there think smart hands at Equinix is a rip off? I can send a package over night to the IBX for less than what it costs to move it from the mailroom to my cage. Just curious....
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
<> Nathan Stratton nathan at robotics.net http://www.robotics.net
-- Alex Rubenstein, AR97, K2AHR, alex@nac.net, latency, Al Reuben -- -- Net Access Corporation, 800-NET-ME-36, http://www.nac.net --
nathan@robotics.net (Nathan Stratton) writes:
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
nevertheless PAIX hasn't made it to chicago yet, and equinix is quite a bit more neutral than a normal abovenet/exodus/att/qwest/ibm/uunet hosting center would be, and that makes them the only game in that town. i recommend that you work hard at helping them fix whatever it is they're doing wrong. think of your work in that regard as a public service. -- Paul Vixie
I think that getting caught is a good indication that they take the security of the facility seriously. Some places will ban you forever if you violate their policies. The mantrap thing is there for a reason. People are always free to build out their own spaces however they wish. If you don't like their policies, don't colo there. Build your own. I like their approach of controlling access very tightly. Overkill is definitely better than underkill. My experience is that a lot of security measures that appear ridiculous or redundant actually act as a defense-in-depth strategy. Their practice of requiring a guard to leave the control booth to allow someone in instead of using a buzzer may seem stupid but serves an important but not entirely well-publicized purpose. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Paul Vixie Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 2:54 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: your mail nathan@robotics.net (Nathan Stratton) writes:
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
nevertheless PAIX hasn't made it to chicago yet, and equinix is quite a bit more neutral than a normal abovenet/exodus/att/qwest/ibm/uunet hosting center would be, and that makes them the only game in that town. i recommend that you work hard at helping them fix whatever it is they're doing wrong. think of your work in that regard as a public service. -- Paul Vixie
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 03:08:22PM -0400, N. Richard Solis wrote:
I think that getting caught is a good indication that they take the security of the facility seriously.
Which is clearly exhibited by them leaving a side door propped open, or not checking or securing this door earlier.... --msa
Leaving or forcing doors to be propped open generally triggers an alarm that prompts a visit from someone in security. It is entirely possible that someone who worked at the facility informed the security staff of what they were doing because they needed to leave the door open to fetch a package or something that was going to be moved through that door. It's also entirely possible that someone working there was violating the security policy entirely. That happens as well. I would need many more fingers and toes to count the number of sleeping guards I've caught at colo sites. The point is: people do dumb things that compromise security for everyone in order to make their own lives easier. A good security plan anticipates these lapses and puts measures in place to deal with them. If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Majdi S. Abbas Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:13 PM To: N. Richard Solis Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: your mail On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 03:08:22PM -0400, N. Richard Solis wrote:
I think that getting caught is a good indication that they take the security of the facility seriously.
Which is clearly exhibited by them leaving a side door propped open, or not checking or securing this door earlier.... --msa
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, N. Richard Solis wrote:
Leaving or forcing doors to be propped open generally triggers an alarm that prompts a visit from someone in security. It is entirely possible that someone who worked at the facility informed the security staff of what they were doing because they needed to leave the door open to fetch a package or something that was going to be moved through that door. It's also entirely possible that someone working there was violating the security policy entirely. That happens as well. I would need many more fingers and toes to count the number of sleeping guards I've caught at colo sites.
Correct, I am sorry I think that is my point. There are a lot of things that they SHOULD have been doing, but they were not. I am saying they spent lots of money on a security image and not on security. They never found me using the door and that is a problem, when I let them know about their issues they rather shut me up then deal with them.
The point is: people do dumb things that compromise security for everyone in order to make their own lives easier. A good security plan anticipates these lapses and puts measures in place to deal with them.
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like.
I know what real security looks like, I also know what real security is. I am saying that I am willing to pay for real security, but I am not willing to page for the image of real security and go through the hassle of the image of real security when there is no real security. I don't know about all of their sights, but at least two have the security image when you walk in, but the rest of the building and other entrances have less then my house.
<> Nathan Stratton nathan at robotics.net http://www.robotics.net
Leaving or forcing doors to be propped open generally triggers an alarm
prompts a visit from someone in security. It is entirely possible that someone who worked at the facility informed the security staff of what
Then the appropriate person to talk to is the account manager. Catching a problem yourself doesn't do anyone any good if the management of the facility (or the company) isn't involved. My experience is that a LOT of companies want to hear from customers when things go amiss. They can't always rely on their own employees to let them know when the are falling down on the job. I've gotten corrective action form people just by threatening to bring in a higher management layer. People would rather fix a problem themselves than allow their management to fix it for them. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Nathan Stratton Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 5:07 PM To: N. Richard Solis Cc: Majdi S. Abbas; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: your mail On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, N. Richard Solis wrote: that they
were doing because they needed to leave the door open to fetch a package or something that was going to be moved through that door. It's also entirely possible that someone working there was violating the security policy entirely. That happens as well. I would need many more fingers and toes to count the number of sleeping guards I've caught at colo sites.
Correct, I am sorry I think that is my point. There are a lot of things that they SHOULD have been doing, but they were not. I am saying they spent lots of money on a security image and not on security. They never found me using the door and that is a problem, when I let them know about their issues they rather shut me up then deal with them.
The point is: people do dumb things that compromise security for everyone in order to make their own lives easier. A good security plan anticipates these lapses and puts measures in place to deal with them.
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like.
I know what real security looks like, I also know what real security is. I am saying that I am willing to pay for real security, but I am not willing to page for the image of real security and go through the hassle of the image of real security when there is no real security. I don't know about all of their sights, but at least two have the security image when you walk in, but the rest of the building and other entrances have less then my house.
<> Nathan Stratton nathan at robotics.net http://www.robotics.net
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, N. Richard Solis wrote:
Then the appropriate person to talk to is the account manager. Catching a problem yourself doesn't do anyone any good if the management of the facility (or the company) isn't involved.
That presumes there is a single account manager. With Equinix, there are no less than 5 different people I need to call depending on what I need. They've shifted account management costs back on the customer. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Patrick Greenwell Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Nathan Stratton wrote:
Correct, I am sorry I think that is my point. There are a lot of things that they SHOULD have been doing, but they were not. I am saying they spent lots of money on a security image and not on security. They never found me using the door and that is a problem, when I let them know about their issues they rather shut me up then deal with them.
Obviously their secret plan to shut you up failed :-) Like commercial ventures, there is a certain amount of fluff and puffery. Banks still get robbed even with that really, really thick door on the vault. Most car commercials have fine print at the bottom saying don't do this insane thing. It gives the sales people something to talk about. Stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the sales person until you want to talk about discounts. Any technically savvy person should be able to do due dilegence and determine if a facility meets his needs. The question isn't really about security, but how it compares to other facilities of a similar caliber. You could drive a tank, but its really hard to park and gets lousy gas milage. Comparing a car to a tank isn't very useful. Comparing a Volvo to a Saab might provide information to make an informed choice. Is Equinix (PAIX, MFN, NOTA, etc) less secure than NORAD? Yes. Are there things I wish they did differently? Yes. Have they ever left a door unlocked? Yes. Have they ever made a mistake? Yes. Is Equinix a clean, secure, well-run facility I would trust to house my equipment? Yes. Would I also buy insurance and consider a diverse, back up site for my equipment? Yes. Disclosure: I'm an ex-employee of Equinix.
I am not an ex-employee of Equinix, so here's my 2 cents: When we built the IBXs, having spent a couple of years listening to you folks tell me what you want at the PAIX and elsewhere, I basically learned it was impossible to satisfy everyone. If you please one network engineer, you're going to annoy another one, and that's just the way it works. In the immortal words of Stephen Stuart, "Sorry." Apparently our secret plan to shut up Nathan did fail miserably. ;) We'll have to set the hand geometry readers to electrocute him on his next appearance at the IBX. 1) Fire codes and other local ordinances interfered with my grand plan to bury you in concrete and eliminate fire exits. ;) In other words, we have no choice put to put fire exits in there, otherwise many of you would die in a fire due to the sheer size of our facilities. Fire doors don't work very well if you can't open them. In some regions, we're allowed by code to lock it shut for a delay and theoretically that's enough time to send a guard to hunt you down and remove you. In others we need to let it open, but an alarm goes off (sometimes silently, other times very loudly) to accomplish the same effect. If Nathan propped open a door and was able to enter/exit without being caught then that was a failure and one I'd like to address... In any case, yes we do have a camera watching you, and we do keep records of all that, so if you think it's a big security hole and plan on balancing that GSR on one toe into the back of your pickup so you can sell it on the street corner go ahead and try. Don't be surprised if I don't write you in jail. 2) Customers are given one point of contact they can call for anything. You know, it's that game... if you do what one person wants it annoys another... So therefore, just like engineers love to call their favorite go-getter of the day, it's ok for customers to call account reps, SEs, or even network engineers and folks like me. We don't care. However, if you want to call the ERC we figure that's fine as well. We thought everyone would want to bypass humans all together and use a web site. We were proven wrong on that front, though some of the more organized customers use the web interface regardless. So you don't HAVE to call five different people, but hell, if you want to, have a field day. (What? You mean there is flexibility? Preposterous!!!) Finally, remember the point of all this... peering points didn't take into account the physical issues associated with colo, and we tried to address them from the network engineer's perspective...paying special attention to the VERY different colocation needs for different customers. Oh yeah, and then try and duplicate it exactly in seven buildings. At 3am one day maybe even Nathan can appreciate the way we designed them... Being a colo provider is a necessary evil needed to accomplish the much more important goals of solving certain other exchange point issues. On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 06:50:00PM -0400, Sean Donelan wrote:
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Nathan Stratton wrote:
Correct, I am sorry I think that is my point. There are a lot of things that they SHOULD have been doing, but they were not. I am saying they spent lots of money on a security image and not on security. They never found me using the door and that is a problem, when I let them know about their issues they rather shut me up then deal with them.
Obviously their secret plan to shut you up failed :-)
Like commercial ventures, there is a certain amount of fluff and puffery. Banks still get robbed even with that really, really thick door on the vault. Most car commercials have fine print at the bottom saying don't do this insane thing. It gives the sales people something to talk about. Stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the sales person until you want to talk about discounts. Any technically savvy person should be able to do due dilegence and determine if a facility meets his needs.
The question isn't really about security, but how it compares to other facilities of a similar caliber. You could drive a tank, but its really hard to park and gets lousy gas milage. Comparing a car to a tank isn't very useful. Comparing a Volvo to a Saab might provide information to make an informed choice.
Is Equinix (PAIX, MFN, NOTA, etc) less secure than NORAD? Yes. Are there things I wish they did differently? Yes. Have they ever left a door unlocked? Yes. Have they ever made a mistake? Yes.
Is Equinix a clean, secure, well-run facility I would trust to house my equipment? Yes. Would I also buy insurance and consider a diverse, back up site for my equipment? Yes.
Disclosure: I'm an ex-employee of Equinix.
-- [ Jay Adelson adelson@equinix.com ] [ Founder, Chief Technology Officer Work: +1-650-316-6000 ] [ Equinix, Inc., Mountain View, CA Fax: +1-650-316-6904 ]
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Jay Adelson wrote:
2) Customers are given one point of contact they can call for anything.
I'm your customer and I'm telling you that I haven't been and when I've specifically asked for a single point of contact I've been told that I need to contact a variety of people based on what it is I need.
You know, it's that game... if you do what one person wants it annoys another... So therefore, just like engineers love to call their favorite go-getter of the day, it's ok for customers to call account reps, SEs, or even network engineers and folks like me. We don't care.
Really? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christina Canady" <ccanady@equinix.com> CC: "Duane MacKenzie" <dmackenzie@equinix.com> Subject: RE: Packing Slips Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:43:56 -0700 I believe Duane has responded regarding the packing slips. On another note, all correspondence to the IBX needs to go through me or the ERC in the future. We ask all our customers not to call or email the IBXes directly. Thank you, CC -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I invite you to take any further correspondence regarding this issue private, and look very forward to your response. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Patrick Greenwell Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Anyone have confirmation about this ? Record labels today filed suit in District Court in DC against Verizon, asking that Verizon be compelled to turn over information regarding their subscribers under the pre-complaint subpoena power granted under 17 USC 512(h) of the DMCA. Regards Marshall Eubanks
Patrick, Yes, really! That's what the ERC is for. I guess the confusion is outside your email thread, which indicates as such... But yes, the single point is supposed to be the ERC. Feel free to contact me with specifics... -Jay On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 05:29:43PM -0700, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Jay Adelson wrote:
2) Customers are given one point of contact they can call for anything.
I'm your customer and I'm telling you that I haven't been and when I've specifically asked for a single point of contact I've been told that I need to contact a variety of people based on what it is I need.
You know, it's that game... if you do what one person wants it annoys another... So therefore, just like engineers love to call their favorite go-getter of the day, it's ok for customers to call account reps, SEs, or even network engineers and folks like me. We don't care.
Really?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christina Canady" <ccanady@equinix.com> CC: "Duane MacKenzie" <dmackenzie@equinix.com> Subject: RE: Packing Slips Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:43:56 -0700
I believe Duane has responded regarding the packing slips.
On another note, all correspondence to the IBX needs to go through me or the ERC in the future. We ask all our customers not to call or email the IBXes directly.
Thank you,
CC --------------------------------------------------------------------------
I invite you to take any further correspondence regarding this issue private, and look very forward to your response.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Patrick Greenwell Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
-- [ Jay Adelson adelson@equinix.com ] [ Founder, Chief Technology Officer Work: +1-650-316-6000 ] [ Equinix, Inc., Mountain View, CA Fax: +1-650-316-6904 ]
Unnamed Administration sources reported that N. Richard Solis said:
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like.
You missed the places w/ real security. That's where the very polite Marine Security Guard with the 870 shotgun asks to see your badge again... -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, David Lesher wrote:
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like. You missed the places w/ real security. That's where the very
Unnamed Administration sources reported that N. Richard Solis said: polite Marine Security Guard with the 870 shotgun asks to see your badge again...
Sigh, and in places with "real security" you rarely find enemies/competitors sitting in the same room. Exchange points are like the United Nations, not high security military bases. AMS-IX, Equinix, Linx/Telehouse, PAIX, etc provide a neutral facility for competitors to exchange network traffic. The facility operators provide a reasonable level of security, and try to keep the diplomats from punching each other. Its in all (most?) the competitors' self-interest to follow the rules. Let's not lose sight of the purpose of colocation/exchange points. If we start requiring you to be a US citizen and have top secret clearance in order to enter a colocation facility, we've probably decreased the usefulness of the exchange points.
Sean, For a lot of people, these locations are a place to store an entire web presence. That might include order information or private email or credit card records for an entire day's transactions. My feeling is that the general purpose of security at these locations is to make sure that no one is tampering with any equipment in any way, to include unauthorized removal. That was the point of my previous email. The connections to those machines and the data stored on them is what is of value in those locations, not the physical security of the people. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Sean Donelan Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 2:03 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Shared facilities (was Re: your mail) On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, David Lesher wrote:
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like. You missed the places w/ real security. That's where the very
Unnamed Administration sources reported that N. Richard Solis said: polite Marine Security Guard with the 870 shotgun asks to see your badge again...
Sigh, and in places with "real security" you rarely find enemies/competitors sitting in the same room. Exchange points are like the United Nations, not high security military bases. AMS-IX, Equinix, Linx/Telehouse, PAIX, etc provide a neutral facility for competitors to exchange network traffic. The facility operators provide a reasonable level of security, and try to keep the diplomats from punching each other. Its in all (most?) the competitors' self-interest to follow the rules. Let's not lose sight of the purpose of colocation/exchange points. If we start requiring you to be a US citizen and have top secret clearance in order to enter a colocation facility, we've probably decreased the usefulness of the exchange points.
At 12:32 AM 8/21/2002 -0400, David Lesher wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that N. Richard Solis said:
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around
every
corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like.
You missed the places w/ real security. That's where the very polite Marine Security Guard with the 870 shotgun asks to see your badge again...
Can we all stop talking shit for a moment? Real security is when nobody can talk about it. Regards, -- Martin Hannigan hannigan@fugawi.net
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:32:24 -0400 (EDT) David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that N. Richard Solis said:
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like.
You missed the places w/ real security. That's where the very polite Marine Security Guard with the 870 shotgun asks to see your badge again...
or you're standing in the parking lot, and suddenly find yourself surrounded by men in suits carrying mac-10s. richard -- Richard Welty rwelty@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security
Who did you think held the cellphone and the pager? :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of David Lesher Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 12:32 AM To: nanog list Subject: Re: your mail Unnamed Administration sources reported that N. Richard Solis said:
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around
every
corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like.
You missed the places w/ real security. That's where the very polite Marine Security Guard with the 870 shotgun asks to see your badge again... -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Sounds like a nuclear power plant I used to work at. Except the nuke plants don't trust the marines to do the job. They hire and train their own security teams. I had to go through more screening to work there than anything I've gone through re security clearances and the government. The scary thing is, (IMHO) the nuclear industry is being held up as the model for all other industries re security. Of course, there isn't the issue of many companies sharing one facility, which makes things far more interesting. A colo is no place for guns, imho. Jane David Lesher wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that N. Richard Solis said:
If you haven't worked in an environment where you had to turn in your cellphone and pager at the front desk, show a badge to a camera around every corner, and get your office keys from a vending machine you dont know what real security looks like.
You missed the places w/ real security. That's where the very polite Marine Security Guard with the 870 shotgun asks to see your badge again...
-- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, N. Richard Solis wrote:
I think that getting caught is a good indication that they take the security of the facility seriously. Some places will ban you forever if you violate their policies. The mantrap thing is there for a reason. People are always free to build out their own spaces however they wish. If you don't like their policies, don't colo there. Build your own. I like their approach of controlling access very tightly. Overkill is definitely better than underkill. My experience is that a lot of security measures that appear ridiculous or redundant actually act as a defense-in-depth strategy. Their practice of requiring a guard to leave the control booth to allow someone in instead of using a buzzer may seem stupid but serves an important but not entirely well-publicized purpose.
I was not caught, that was my issue. They only gave me a hard time after I showed them all the issues they had with their security. My issue is they have very little control.
<> Nathan Stratton nathan at robotics.net http://www.robotics.net
There is no perfect location. Any common location has a certain level of insecurity. Im sure u could sneak in a squeeze bottle and spray equipment also. The point is, it is a relatively secure location, short of building your own facility or blding and manning it. Even many military installations are open to social engineering. Paul is absolutely right, as a good engineer and customer, put your suggestions in the suggestion box. Or access one of their people on the list. I think Bill Norton is easy to reach by email and so is their CTO. Dave At 18:54 +0000 8/20/02, Paul Vixie wrote:
nathan@robotics.net (Nathan Stratton) writes:
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
nevertheless PAIX hasn't made it to chicago yet, and equinix is quite a bit more neutral than a normal abovenet/exodus/att/qwest/ibm/uunet hosting center would be, and that makes them the only game in that town.
i recommend that you work hard at helping them fix whatever it is they're doing wrong. think of your work in that regard as a public service. -- Paul Vixie
-- David Diaz dave@smoton.net [Email] pagedave@smoton.net [Pager] Smotons (Smart Photons) trump dumb photons
Equinix has show considerable interest in catering to the carrier market, and has always been very customer service oriented. Their security is generally good, and their security managers take the sort of stuff you are talking about very seriously. I have no doubt that they would take some serious action if told about a propped door. Their technical folks (Louie, Lane, etc) are sharp, and their helping hands is far above the level found at most carrier colos. In addition, they have folks like Bill Norton and Jay Adelson, folks with real service provider experience, who provide perspective to their ops folks, and who actively promote things that are good for the internet community like peering. Their Gigabit Peering Forums are at least as useful as NANOGs, sometimes quite a bit better. If you are looking for more basic, non-carrier neutral colo, it's out there - it might even be cheaper, in the very short run. However, getting lots of space in, say, Worldcom colos, may sound like a good deal, but it can cost you dearly in the long run, with incompetent or non-existing remote hands, dealing with very bad customer service, or bad security. - Daniel Golding Paul Vixie wrote....
nathan@robotics.net (Nathan Stratton) writes:
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
nevertheless PAIX hasn't made it to chicago yet, and equinix is quite a bit more neutral than a normal abovenet/exodus/att/qwest/ibm/uunet hosting center would be, and that makes them the only game in that town.
i recommend that you work hard at helping them fix whatever it is they're doing wrong. think of your work in that regard as a public service. -- Paul Vixie
Speakig of paix's and locations, I know the mfn filings have held up progress but I wondered and maybe others on this list wonder what the status of the paix nyiix interconnection might be? On 20 Aug 2002, Paul Vixie wrote:
nathan@robotics.net (Nathan Stratton) writes:
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
nevertheless PAIX hasn't made it to chicago yet, and equinix is quite a bit more neutral than a normal abovenet/exodus/att/qwest/ibm/uunet hosting center would be, and that makes them the only game in that town.
i recommend that you work hard at helping them fix whatever it is they're doing wrong. think of your work in that regard as a public service.
Does any one else out there think smart hands at Equinix is a rip off? I can send a package over night to the IBX for less than what it costs to move it from the mailroom to my cage. Just curious....
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
--- There are a few companies that spent money on "bullet-resistant" reception areas [the purpose has always eluded me] -- when you ask if the loading dock and all other entrances are similarly reinforced, you get the "no, of course not!". I guess the thought process is: basically assume the bad guys will go through the front door and cooperate with the mantrap. Then again (bringing this back to EQIX) -- they didn't spend money on expensive signage, because no one would guess where the door is -- right? So that's more of a savings than some other companies have/had/whatever. DJ I'm curious -- did they kick you out for the day, or terminate your contract and move you out?
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Deepak Jain wrote:
I'm curious -- did they kick you out for the day, or terminate your contract and move you out?
Basically they said they would ban me personally if I gave there security people a hard time about their security. I don't think they ever would terminate a contract if you were paying their sick rates.
<> Nathan Stratton nathan at robotics.net http://www.robotics.net
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Deepak Jain wrote:
I'm curious -- did they kick you out for the day, or terminate your contract and move you out?
Basically they said they would ban me personally if I gave there security people a hard time about their security. I don't think they ever would terminate a contract if you were paying their sick rates.
Good contract point here - if for any reason Customer's key personnel are not able to access the facility or equipment, at Customer's option Agreement may be terminated with 30 days notice. That will make everyone a little more polite, IMO. Deepak Jain AiNET
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 02:07:49PM -0400, Nathan Stratton wrote:
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Ali Jackson wrote:
Does any one else out there think smart hands at Equinix is a rip off? I can send a package over night to the IBX for less than what it costs to move it from the mailroom to my cage. Just curious....
Uh, yes. Equinix is a rip off in general. I got kicked out of Chicago using the side door. I was sick of the stupid man trap crap and noticed they had a door that was propped open in the back that leads outside. It was much easier to back the truck up there and go in and out. The whole thing is a joke, they spent a lot of cash to look good, but there is very little substance.
Did you try just asking if you could pull up to the loading dock? I can only speak to SJC and IAD, but since Equinix in Chicago is in the ghetto (how many blocks is it from the projects? :P) you would think it would have decent physical security. Yes if you get creative enough you can start talking about fake IDs and drugging someone and taking molds of their hands, but compared to the joke of most colo security it covers the areas where you could reasonably expect to see attacks. Personally I'm more concerned about quick and hassle free access than having to deal with a guard following me around the entire time. But I'm sure none of this matters to you, because you probably couldn't fight your urge to test the security, then got upset when they booted you for it, am I right? As for being a "rip off", I suggest you price other carrier neutral colo and then come back with that. And no I don't have any vested interest in Equinix, I've even had my own bad experiences with their security (which were delt with promptly). But they're still reasonable to deal with, offer an all around excellent service, and they've done a much better job on security and other fronts than other colos. As for the original poster, remote hands service is expensive, and smart hands is usually for "smart" services. If all you want is "hands" either drag your...self down to the colo and start lifting, or hire your own $10/hr rack and stack monkeys. At any rate, this has no place on nanog. -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras PGP Key ID: 0x138EA177 (67 29 D7 BC E8 18 3E DA B2 46 B3 D8 14 36 FE B6)
participants (18)
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Alex Rubenstein -
Daniel Golding -
David Diaz -
David Lesher -
Deepak Jain -
Jay Adelson -
Majdi S. Abbas -
Marshall Eubanks -
Martin Hannigan -
N. Richard Solis -
Nathan Stratton -
Patrick -
Paul Vixie -
Pawlukiewicz Jane -
Richard A Steenbergen -
Richard Welty -
Scott Granados -
Sean Donelan